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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Been doing reading on the STN LCD displays in ProTreks, it sounds VERY cool and from the limited amount of reviews it seems like it's a big upgrade, primarily for negative displays but also for total viewing angle even on positives. The technology is pretty neat, has been around since the 80's:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super-twisted_nematic_display

And has been around for quite a while. It seems like the type of step up that digitals need to stay relevant in a world of smart watches (which don't really appeal to me.)

So far it's found in the PRW-3100, PRW-S3100, and PRW-3510 (as well as on a PRW6000?).

My question is, why hasn't this migrated to Casio's far more popular G-Shock line yet? And if it does, do you think it will be on a new model or on a revision of an existing one. If so, which model do you think would be likely to get it? Rangeman maybe?


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As with most of these hypothetical threads, the bigger questions are the ones we don't have answers to:

1) If STN LCD's have been around "for quite a while" then why didn't Casio just use them in the relatively new Rangeman in the first place? Are they significantly more expensive or significantly less durable than standard LCD's?

2) IF Casio were to go back and revise an existing model to use a new STN LCD, what would that do to production costs? Is it merely a matter of changing the LCD or do changes have to be made to the electrical connections to the module? What about battery drain, since all of the models listed above are solar-powered? (Obviously the Rangeman is also solar-powered, but battery drain might be a factor in using STN displays in traditional battery-powered models.)

3) Most importantly, are potential increases in sales going to make up for increased production costs in retrofitting STN displays to existing models? MOST people who buy G-Shocks aren't watch collectors who hang around watch forums, and most of them aren't going to fully appreciate an upgraded display. For every small amount the price of a Casio product goes up, the more likely it is that the mythical "average consumer" will start looking at the competitor's watches instead.

Like most big businesses, Casio is out to maximize profit, and they seem to have a long history of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." As evidenced by their apparent lack of cutting-edge technology in the ABC watch and smartwatch categories, Casio seems to be content in their niche of "good quality for the price, without being TOO innovative." They also seem to be more focused on producing fashion watches (as in "let's make more colors of these existing models!") and breaking into the quasi-luxury market with some of their high-end G-Shocks than they are with making major innovations with their low-to-midrange models. :-(

If STN displays ever migrate to G-Shocks, I expect them to be in brand new models or possibly some of their higher-end models like the GW-5000. I don't think we're ever going to see an STN display in a DW-6900, even a "collab."
 

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Been doing reading on the STN LCD displays in ProTreks, it sounds VERY cool and from the limited amount of reviews it seems like it's a big upgrade, primarily for negative displays but also for total viewing angle even on positives. The technology is pretty neat, has been around since the 80's:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super-twisted_nematic_display

And has been around for quite a while. It seems like the type of step up that digitals need to stay relevant in a world of smart watches (which don't really appeal to me.)

So far it's found in the PRW-3100, PRW-S3100, and PRW-3510 (as well as on a PRW6000?).

My question is, why hasn't this migrated to Casio's far more popular G-Shock line yet? And if it does, do you think it will be on a new model or on a revision of an existing one. If so, which model do you think would be likely to get it? Rangeman maybe?


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I would not say that G-Shocks are far more popular then ProTrek's. ProTrek's are also fairly popular and is the second biggest sub brand in the Casio line up. So yes G-Shock are more popular but not far more popular!

Perhaps the new GWF-D1000 Frogman releasing in Japan today will be the first G-Shock with a STN display. Nothing official about that in the specs but some pictures makes me suspect it does for instance this one:

Casio-G-Shock-Frogman-GWF-D1000-23.jpg

It appears you can still make out the time and no ghosting even from that steep angle so that suggest to me it could be STN?:think:

When it comes to changing modules in pre-existing models that almost never happens. They did for the DW-6900 series but that was only because they wanted to extend the calendar, that new module is also more energy efficient so lasts longer before needing a new battery.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I would not say that G-Shocks are far more popular then ProTrek's. ProTrek's are also fairly popular and is the second biggest sub brand in the Casio line up. So yes G-Shock are more popular but not far more popular!

Perhaps the new GWF-D1000 Frogman releasing in Japan today will be the first G-Shock with a STN display. Nothing official about that in the specs but some pictures makes me suspect it does for instance this one:

View attachment 8397002

It appears you can still make out the time and no ghosting even from that steep angle so that suggest to me it could be STN?:think:

When it comes to changing modules in pre-existing models that almost never happens. They did for the DW-6900 series but that was only because they wanted to extend the calendar, that new module is also more energy efficient so lasts longer before needing a new battery.
Well, per changing modules, the 3510 and 3100 are both revisions of the 3500 and 3000 respectively. So it's not too far fetched


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I have another question. Why is this new to watches? STN displays have been around since the 1980s. Is it the power requirements? Is the real advancement here, that Casio has found a way to use STN displays in a much more power efficient manner, suitable for a watch when no one else has been able to until now?
 

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Cos Casio is becoming the next Invicta. Overflow of models, too many factories in China, Asia, etc to keep a track of.

If they go back to STN displays, pretty sure they have to update all the global manufacturing line which is no easy feat considering they have factories all over Asia.
You go and compare a $300 Casio in any retail store to a $20 Timex digital and the Timex display can be read from across the room.

I haven't bought a Casio in years now for good reasons. I have my old Gulfman that continues to take a beating with a crystal clear display. I switched from Protreks to Suunto Core then Ambit and that's where my digital run ended. If you are looking for Bluetooth/smart watch integration, there are FAR BETTER choices than Casio (Apple iWatch, Fenix and Suunto's offerings).

If you see some of the newer Casio's, you'd think they hired designers from Invicta (55mm case size, convoluted screens, dark displays and fruity colors to top if off).
 
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I can confirm that the D1000 Frog has an STN display. I've tested it at extreme viewing angles, and the display is readable for as long as you can SEE the display. Definitely STN.

I also appreciate that the metal squares have STN displays too. I've owned plenty of non-STN Gs, and they're certainly fine. (Except for most negative displays; for me those now NEED to be STN). But if given a choice, I prefer STN. As I discovered when I compared two 3500/3510 Protreks side-by-side (one STN and one not), even looking directly down onto the display, the STN digits appeared to be 'darker,' thus with better contrast and more easily readable than the non-STN display.

Also, STN is one of the reasons I like the Protrek PRW-3100 line. On top of the fact that they're nice and compact Protreks, with HUGE digits, some with sapphire, and all with STN. Some with the FC combi bracelets too. For those reasons, the 3100FC is one of my favorite Protrek models to-date. (Has sapphire, the FC bracelet, AND a very slight but cool greenish tint to the display!). :-!

I would expect any upgraded version of the GW-5000 to have STN.
 
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...You go and compare a $300 Casio in any retail store to a $20 Timex digital and the Timex display can be read from across the room.
Challenge accepted. I have a couple of Timex Endure 30 Ironman Shocks on the way, found them cheap.

9D00BF44-FEB1-4DDD-80F4-B995A496834A_1567741306823.jpeg

Most of the cheap Timexes have acrylic crystals, but this one is apparently mineral glass, so it should be a fair fight!
 

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Cos Casio is becoming the next Invicta. Overflow of models, too many factories in China, Asia, etc to keep a track of.

If they go back to STN displays, pretty sure they have to update all the global manufacturing line which is no easy feat considering they have factories all over Asia.
You go and compare a $300 Casio in any retail store to a $20 Timex digital and the Timex display can be read from across the room.

I haven't bought a Casio in years now for good reasons. I have my old Gulfman that continues to take a beating with a crystal clear display. I switched from Protreks to Suunto Core then Ambit and that's where my digital run ended. If you are looking for Bluetooth/smart watch integration, there are FAR BETTER choices than Casio (Apple iWatch, Fenix and Suunto's offerings).

If you see some of the newer Casio's, you'd think they hired designers from Invicta (55mm case size, convoluted screens, dark displays and fruity colors to top if off).
That’s because Casio “IS” Invicta. Their designers suck. They’ve been straying away from legitimate designs and inventing some very ugly looking watches with unreadable displays. They’ve turned Casio into a ghetto watch and are marketing these watches for people living in the ghetto. Casio used to design some very nice looking watches back in the 1980’s. During the mid and late 1990’s they followed Invicta and hired Invicta designers to design ridiculous looking watches. The ghetto market that liked Invicta so much has now moved on to Casio. That’s why Casio is so popular.
 

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That’s because Casio “IS” Invicta. Their designers suck. They’ve been straying away from legitimate designs and inventing some very ugly looking watches with unreadable displays. They’ve turned Casio into a ghetto watch and are marketing these watches for people living in the ghetto. Casio used to design some very nice looking watches back in the 1980’s. During the mid and late 1990’s they followed Invicta and hired Invicta designers to design ridiculous looking watches. The ghetto market that liked Invicta so much has now moved on to Casio. That’s why Casio is so popular.
Buying squares pretty much solves that "issue", even if the basic resin squares are still about double the price of the average Timex, though iirc, that has been the case since the late '90s when I first bought a Timex Expedition because I didn't want to spend the extra cash on a Square instead. A square most likely would have "lived better", but I still have that old beat up Expedition that is pictured in my high school grad photo from the early '00s.

If you just want a cheap legible watch, Casio has had you covered for a very long time in the non-gshock line.
 

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According to SHOCKBASE these subseries have STN-LCD's:

GST B200/B300/B400, GR, GWN, GMW:


Frogman is not included.

This is the breakdown:

Digital Display TypeModel Count
TN-LCD4154 (98.25 %)
STN-LCD53 ( 1.25 %)
MIP21 (0.50 %)
 
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