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I would like to hear more about STP's automatic movements since they have been around a while now. We still don't know if they are simply reworked SeaGull's or whether they are a new design but yet of Chinese origin pretending to be Swiss. So far, the only place I've seen these movements is in either Micro Brand watches and they are even few and far between there or fashion watches. Fashion watches make sense since their parent is Fossil. Somehow, taking Fossil upscale seems like mission impossible. Why haven't we seen these movements in any mainstream, mid-priced brands? I am anxious for your input.
 

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I would like to hear more about STP's automatic movements since they have been around a while now. We still don't know if they are simply reworked SeaGull's or whether they are a new design but yet of Chinese origin pretending to be Swiss. So far, the only place I've seen these movements is in either Micro Brand watches and they are even few and far between there or fashion watches. Fashion watches make sense since their parent is Fossil. Somehow, taking Fossil upscale seems like mission impossible. Why haven't we seen these movements in any mainstream, mid-priced brands? I am anxious for your input.
Fossil does indeed produce these movements as Swiss, but I believe only 50% of the parts are required to be domestic so half the movement could be Chinese. I haven't seen any deep dives on the movement, likely because they are no producing watches that interest collectors.
 

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Excellent threed about movements. Dockvail from NTH (Janis trade) who is right person to talk about movements, has high opinion about STP1-11 (read his posts from this thread) . By the way, every movement completely assembled in Swiss (place of production is not important, for example China), consider as Swiss movement. There is widely accepted opinion that 60% parts of Swiss movements are actually produced in China. So, dont be naive about Chinese origin and read threed. Regard
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?p=43951561


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The performance testing that one of the members here used to post quite regularly showed that they seemed to perform better than Sellita but not quite as well as ETA movements. They are far superior to anything from Seagull and perform better than any non-GS Seiko (though their newer thinner movement hadn’t been tested).

That’s just tests and not real world, but it suggests that they are at least reasonably well made.
 

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I have 4 watches that use the STP movements. 3 Zodiacs and a Magrette. All perform on par with my Selitta and ETA movements.
 

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STP 1-11 review from someone who knows what he's talking about -

Review: STP 1-11 | Watch Guy

I have one STP 1-11 (left) and an STP 3-13 (right) in my Zodiacs. The 3-13 is chronometer rated and the 1-11 has been regulated so well it runs well within chronometer specs. The extra jewel for the upper barrel arbour, longer PR, a bit better finishing than an elabore ETA, and swan neck regulator for the 3-13 are all improvements in my book. Only thing I don't like is the winding action - it feels a bit gritty. I prefer the winding action on ETA movements. I haven't had experience with any Sellita or Soprod yet.

STP.jpg
 

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I'm always amazed when reviewers base a movements accuracy soley on one example. I've had multiple ETA's, Selittas, and STP's and all are different. I've had examples of all and they can vary greatly within each individual brand. One can read a review of a watch with an ETA 2892 that is tested at + 2 secs/day, buy the same model and have it run at + 8 secs/day. Accuracy claims made in single watch reviews should be taken with a shaker of salt.
 

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I'm always amazed when reviewers base a movements accuracy soley on one example. I've had multiple ETA's, Selittas, and STP's and all are different. I've had examples of all and they can vary greatly within each individual brand. One can read a review of a watch with an ETA 2892 that is tested at + 2 secs/day, buy the same model and have it run at + 8 secs/day. Accuracy claims made in single watch reviews should be taken with a shaker of salt.
Agreed. Though if you assume a normal performance distribution (safe assumption) and if you measure positional variation and isochronism as well as point-in-time beat rates, and if you consider those things and not just if those things happen to average themselves out in one model worn by one person, then you don’t have to have a very large sample size to get statistically meaningful data.

For instance, in the controlled test I saw for 4 old school non-silicon ETAs, 4 STPs, 2 or 3 Sellitas and a couple of Chinese copies, patterns were emerging in positional variation and isochronism that have a strong statistical indication that STPs perform like ETAs and not Hangzhou or Seagull movements.

Macro shots and tear-downs seem to suggest that is also likely to be true.
 

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Of course anyone selling watches with the STP will speak highly of them.

When they cane out they were well regarded. But now that time has passed, their flaws have surfaced. Many micros will not use them now due to their failure rate and shoddy workmanship.

It’s not easy to make a reliable mechanical movement. Look at Ronda. They’re having second thoughts on their new auto movt.

Stick with ETA, Seiko and Miyota and you’ll be good (mostly).


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Marketability probably has something to do with it as well. A watch with a movement in it from one of the big names is better received by the buying public than one that is relatively unknown.
 

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I've heard good opinions of the performance of these movements. However, they seem to have a common reliability issue with the keyless works.
 
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