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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
News from Switzerland here. (In French, sorry).

It started on on WUS, here...

Basically, TH was forced by the public uproar on watch forums to admit that they had to buy the basic calibres from Seiko:

Hi, I'm J.C. Babin the CEO of TAG Heuer, and YES, the new Caliber 1887 is based on a SII (Seiko Instruments Inc.) TC78 platform developped and patented in 1997 (filing) and eversince produced in very limited quantities, apparently for Junghans and Seiko watches in Japan. The caliber we propose and announced last week in London is a major evolution of this platform even though I aknowledge that the overall construction may look similar at first glance. However, the TAG Heuer movement is much different in terms of components, size and eventually performances, not to mention it is manufactured (all its key components including plate, bridges, assortment, cannon pinion, eccentrics etc....) in Switzerland in TAG Heuer workshops of Cornol (Cortech - a company owned by TAG Heuer and already producing TAG Heuer and Zenith cases) and La Chaux-de-Fonds (where we have also the HQs and where we added 30.000 sq feet more last year for movements assembling and other manufacturig projects) as well as from "best in class" partners such as Nivarox.
- Dimensions: it's broader (29.3 mm vs 28 mm) and thinner (7.13 mm vs 7.27 mm)
- Therefore the main plate, bridges - especially the chronograph bridge - and oscillating mass have been significantly modified to allow this evolution
- Its assortment is a swiss asortment specifically developped by Nivarox for TAG Heuer, and allowing to improve further accuracy and shocks resistancy
- New assortment centring of the balance wheel also specifically developped by KIF, a leading swiss expert company in balance wheels centrings
- Change and development of a new swiss engineered cannon pinion to increase time-setting overtime reliability
- Redesign of the fixing of ball bearings of the mass to contribute reducing the thickness
- Adjustements to pass the famous "60 TAG Heuer torture tests" in terms of accuracy, reliability, thermical and physical shocks resistancy, chemical agressions etc....
We have today already 45 TAG Heuer people working full time on that project in Switzerland and work with 21 other suppliers for additional parts, most being swiss. Total investment is several tenth of mio USD.
I would therefore qualify that movement as really in-house and manufactured by TAG Heuer even though, yes, the original IP has been acquired from SII. Please note that the original SII Caliber has always been praised by watches experts.
I hope I answer your questions as well as our fellow Watchuseek lovers !!!
Good evening - JCB​
 

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What is this famous "60 TAG Heuer torture tests"?????
On the other hand...i honestly think that the mistake was claiming that it had taken them 3 years to completely develop the movement by themselves. The Seiko "roots" that the movement has is NOTHING to be ashamed of, it is just the fact that they weren't honest the first time.

Red
 

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I'm hardly a Tag fan but I wouldn't say he was "shamed" into it but it seems like a key breakdown in their PR/Marketing.
that being said there is "Q&A with Jean-Christophe Babin" document that TAG Heuer also released where he claims that it was in-house all the way:

4- What is the origin of the movement? When did the project start?

Back in January 2006, we started looking at every mechanical chronograph on the market, and none made the grade in terms of our criteria - high-volume production, unbeatable reliability, easy maintenance and reasonable manufacturing cost. So we set out to make our own, and three years later came up with a beauty.

The turnaround time for a new movement - from first draft to final product - is between 3 and 5 years. The Calibre 1887 is at the front end of the timeframe. But we didn't rush anything, we took our time, we didn't make any compromises. When it was completely ready, we launched. As always, the number one priority was to produce the best possible product.
 

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if Tag had to use a base to start with i wish it was the new eta column wheel movement they just made, i guess they wanted something else maybe a little easier to get there hands on
 

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TH has been using the term "100% in-house movement" all over their website [still there] and in press releases, to me that means base plates to rotor all in-house...or at least it should mean that. I just think it was a bum PR move and they shot themselves in the foot...its not like they are going out of business or anything...
 

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TH has been using the term "100% in-house movement" all over their website [still there] and in press releases, to me that means base plates to rotor all in-house...or at least it should mean that. I just think it was a bum PR move and they shot themselves in the foot...its not like they are going out of business or anything...
i see your point but a lot of watch company's claim in house when in fact they start with a base eta or other movement and change it up some. even your higher end watches like omega and breitling do this to some point
 

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i see your point but a lot of watch company's claim in house when in fact they start with a base eta or other movement and change it up some. even your higher end watches like omega and breitling do this to some point
I guess its a matter of terminology for instance when I hear "in-house" i think that the company has become a "manufacture"...like Breitling just released the B01 which is a made from top to bottom by Breitling...their B13 movement [which is in loads of their watches] is based on the 7750 with emebellishments and regulation done in house by Breitling...but they never really claim its wholey made in house

The TH website states "The Caliber 1887 is the fifth movement designed 100% in house by Tag Heuer"...and that is simply [and now admitted by TH] to not be a true statement http://presscorner.tagheuer.com/
 

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i know that Omega and Breitling, do have some in house movements, but some are based of an eta movement in some way, really about the only true in house movement that Tag builds is the V4, maybe 1 or 2 others if you dont count the caliber S which is mostly a Quartz. there are some[not many] watch makers that are true to in house 100% but there are a lot more that modify or use other movements in some way. where Tag went wrong on this was the PR they used stating 100% in house on this 1887 movement, maybe they should have changed there wording some, at least Mr. Babin gave a updated release to the orgin of the base movement.
 

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For some reason, claiming to spend several "tenth of million USD" (a few hundred thousand dollars) seems like a very small amount for movement development (even if it is a decoration/modification) - I wonder if that would even cover the salaries of the people working on it since 2006.
 
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So we set out to make our own, and three years later came up with a beauty.
This is the statement that catches my eye. :oops:

Now, a TAG with a Seiko movement, might not be a bad watch but I have a feeling that this will be even higher priced than their current line up.
 

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For some reason, claiming to spend several "tenth of million USD" (a few hundred thousand dollars) seems like a very small amount for movement development (even if it is a decoration/modification) - I wonder if that would even cover the salaries of the people working on it since 2006.
I wondered that as well, and I con only come to the conclusion that something was lost in translation...maybe tens of millions?
 

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For some reason, claiming to spend several "tenth of million USD" (a few hundred thousand dollars) seems like a very small amount for movement development (even if it is a decoration/modification) - I wonder if that would even cover the salaries of the people working on it since 2006.
When I first read that I just figured it was a typo and he really meant to say "tens of millions USD" Several tens of millions over three years could still mean $10 million/year. That should pay for the salary for 45 people - but that of course assumes it was a typo...
 
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