[midshipman01]

That’s a tough call for me since I see these two companies are very, very differently. And I own both.

I like TAG for their entry level luxury quartz watches the best. My F1 chrono has been an awesome grab and go GADA type watch for over a decade. I think style over substance is totally ok sometimes and I find these more affordable tags to be compelling at the around $1k mark. I do also like the Monaco and the vintage Carrera a lot, but they would be pretty redundant with my speedy and I just don’t think that’s where the brand is strongest today.

on the other hand, oris is like the weird little boutique to find a super nerdy piece without spending super nerd money. 10 day pilot? Where else am I getting that? Pointer date? Equally uncommon. But I love them in this arena. The opposite of a grab and go, I like oris for their grab and stare. Or grab every once in a while when nothing else will quite do.

I guess if you told me one had to go out of business tomorrow for me as a customer I suppose I would choose Oris as I’m more likely to purchase from them again. But say what you want about TAG, as easy as it should be to pop an ETA quartz in a watch and compete with them, few truly do. They’re still the name in that segment and I like that they’re a good entry point.

 

[midshipman01]

Having owned both, I think you get way more for your money buying Oris in terms of quality. Especially if you're considering a quartz tag vs equally priced automatic or manual wind Oris watches.

Tag definitely has way more name recognition amongst every day folks, if that's a part of your equation. But that's because everyone recognizes the big brands due to how much advertising they've historically undertaken. Few will recognize Oris, but those few that do will be people you can have a real chat about watches with.

The first statement is something that feels right, but I don't know if it's anywhere near as cut and dry as that. Quartz TAG's go for $1k-1500 all day from just about anywhere. So, about the only thing in their price range in the Oris catalog, if we also give Oris a discount, would be an entry level steel model with an SW200 in it. I'm the first person that will tell you that a BCPD is one of the best all around watches for the price on the market, I love it, but I wouldn't list "high quality" as one of the reasons. It's as basic as basic Swiss movements get, and the case is by and large just a simple field watch case. It's not BAD, it looks great, but it's hardly a departure from the type of "quality" you would get from an F1 or Aquaracer. Honestly, there probably is a lot more going on with cases, bracelets, and dials on the TAGs.

 

[midshipman01]

Depends which Oris. The BCPD isn't supposed to have an elaborate dial, it would be jarring if they did. That's not the point. The AR case until recently was a brushed slab. Hardly a lot "going on" there, and the bracelets were crap. They've gotten a bit better, now it's a slab with a chamfered edge.

Oris also made these:

As soon as you show me where that aquis gmt sells new for anywhere close to a quartz TAG, I will eat my hat and purchase one. I can find them used for double.

My point was that at quartz TAG prices, the actual prices that people actually pay if they do an ounce of research, oris doesn’t do much either. You can like their entry level stuff better, that’s fine, I like my bcpd better than any quartz TAG, but I don’t see any argument that they’re leagues better in quality. They’re quite basic, as you’d expect for entry level Swiss. Calling them simple by design doesn’t change the fact that they’re still simple.

For someone who wasn’t fussed about getting a mechanical for the sake of it being mechanical, I could see a real argument for an aqua racer being a better buy if it appeals to them more visually. In the cal 400 arena or even just interesting aquis arena as pictured, different ballgame, but then we’re talking about different TAGs as competitors.

 

[midshipman01]

You're talking about a movement that's $350ish retail vs. one that's what, $10? $20? And you're surprised that the Oris costs more? If you just don't care at all about even what kind of watch it is and just want something "nice" then sure.

That's about as wildly apples and oranges as you can get though. Show me a JLC Gyro-tourbillon that sells new for anywhere close to a Seiko 5KX, and I'll eat my hat and buy one. They're both mechanical watches after all.

Oris watches at secondary market prices represent extremely good values. Regular SW200 D65s and Aquis models are $900 all day long. SW330 Aquis GMTs are $1500, and Cal 400 Aquis models are $1900 or so. Again, that's a twin barrel, 5-day PR, within COSC rated, 10 year service, 10 year warranty in-house movement, in a solid 300M rated diver, for under $2K. They are not hard to find. Tag has nothing to compare with that.

I guess I’m lost on what this is supposed to be arguing relative to the original point. I said that for $1k to $1500 Oris does not offer a measurable “quality” increase over entry level quartz TAGs. I haven’t seen evidence that disagrees with that presented. I’m not impressed by a bog standard sellita and I don’t think it represents any kind of significant “quality”. I like the watches just great, but I don’t pretend they’re something they aren’t.

I do agree that for twice as much you can get a more traditionally “high quality” watch from Oris, and probably even that a comparable TAG would cost more. For $4k, I would probably also be shopping at Oris, but this conversation, if we were having it, was started by you.

I still contend that for around a grand, I don’t see much of a quality difference between an sw200 powered entry level Oris or quartz powered TAG for the same money. I’d say you could give points to each and that hand waving “quality” away in this segment as if it ends the conversation because Oris is more of a WIS brand is nonsensical crap that we do way too often on this forum.

 

[midshipman01]

Fair point, if we're going to talk $ we need to compare MSRP to MSRP or discounted vs discounted. If I'm spending $1500 after discounts and I can have a quartz tag or a SW200 Oris of any kind, I'm choosing the Oris every time. But that's a preference thing. I picked up a Quartz Tag in 2000 and for it nearly daily for a decade. Still have it. And I still regret not ponying up a little more for an automatic of any kind.

Oris has a surprising number of things around $2k MSRP. BCPD just under that price, but Diver 65 models can be had on bracelet for just a hair above. Same with some Aquis models.




I guess "quality" can encompass a lot of things. I think of it as robustness, reliability and quality of construction and finishing. I separate design into its own wholly subjective and separate qualification. If we let design cloud the issue, then modern submariners (they don't bother to even chamfer the edges anymore) and fully polished Datejusts might rank below the BCPD in terms of being basic looking.

So I guess when I say high quality I mean a watch that will last and that will take a beating and that is well constructed. Not necessarily elaborately constructed. I actually have an aversion to elaborately designed watches. Which is why "quality" is a meaningful term if we can leave the subjective aspects out of it such as finishing or designs that have "a lot going on" and how we feel about that.

So from my own personal perspective, both my old Quartz Tag and my Diver 65 both held up to abuse equally well, and were both executed to a quality standard, despite their respective design ethos being extremely different

If we're going to include "finishing" in the equation then design very much needs to be involved. You can't separate the fact that a much more complicated design necessarily is more difficult to achieve to a high apparent standard than a much simpler one. Liking it or not liking it is down to personal preference, but when you compare a printed dial field watch to a chrono diver with sculpted lugs and multiple dial surfaces, etc., then you have to take into account that one was surely more difficult to achieve, and if you must, more indicative of "quality" work all else being equal.

I probably need to stop worrying about it because it's too prevalent to ever end, but I honestly find the claims about "finishing" or vague "quality" in this hobby to be fingernails on a chalkboard. Personal experiences are one thing, but 1 out of 100 people who invoke this claim have even some shred of evidence to support what they're arguing, the other 99 are making assumptions based on what the brand identity of the company is, and a further 80 of those have probably never touched either of the watches in person. My eye starts to twitch when I read things like "It's nice, but it's not Tudor level". Ugh. I don't even know what that means. What level?

TAG is probably the single most randomly hated brand in this way, and honestly Oris is not far behind. Hugely underrated imo. To hear many on this forum tell it you'd think these brands were held together with the chewing gum out of the micro artists studios dumpster. I think the truth is they're all much closer to one another in "finishing" and construction than a random outsider would be able to identify just by looking. In this price range, they're honestly all pretty darn good at this point.