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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently got a TAG WAK2110 watch and have some questions regarding its movement. I understand that these days the Calibre 5 movement is a Sellita SW200 so I assume that's what mine has too.

I noticed that when it's fully "charged" the accuracy is very good, within 1 sec. per day. But as I wear it for a few days (only during the day for about 12 hrs, then it either just sits on my desk or it goes in a winder -- more on that below) it seems to start losing about 5 sec/day.

Now I'm not overly active during the day, I work at a desk/computer so not a lot of wrist movement. So I decided to keep the watch in a winder at night. It's one of those cheap "Diplomat" winders that you can get from Amazon for $50 -- I've had it for almost 2 yrs and it keeps other ETA 2824 watches going for weeks. It doesn't seem to be the case with the Tag, after about a day of leaving it in the winder I noticed that the Tag stopped. The setting on the winder is bi-directional 10 minutes on, 90 minutes off = 864 TPD (Turns Per Day) -- at least that's the adverised number, I'm sure it's not exactly accurate but from what I read the SW200 needs about 650 TPD so that should be plenty.

Questions:

(1) It's unclear to me what the 650 TPD for the SW200 really means. Is it the number of TPDs so that the movement maintains its current reserve level? So if I would like to add to the reserve I should run it at a higher TPD to account for my wrist "laziness" during the day?

(2) I tried a higher setting on my winder "30 minutes on, 3 hours off = 1080 TPD" and the watch still stopped after 30 hrs or so in the winder. Is it the case that winders are not able to add to the reserve if the reserve is already low?

(3) Is it normal for movements to run slow once their reserve is depleted? Do they get regulated to run well when they are fully "charged"?

(4) Anyone else having a hard time with the power reserve in their Calibre 5 SW200 movements? Any suggestions? I do have plenty of warranty left on the watch but I don't want to send it in and have it opened, I like to keep the factory seal for as long as I can.

I have not yet tried the power reserve test where I manually wind the watch 40 full turns and just let it be and see how long it lasts. I'm a bit scared to keep fiddling with the stiff crown given past problems with the AR models.
 

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I have a WAK2110. In the beginning, when I was more active, I didn't have to wind the watch. But recently, since I've been less active, I find I have to wind the watch every three or four days. When the watch slows down--at least in my case--it's because the reserve is running low. Soon after, the watch will stop. So if your watch is running slow, it's a good sign that it's about to stop. Winders do not add reserve power. Winders simply maintain whatever reserve you have left. So if you intend to rest your watch for a long period of time, you should first wind it before installing in your winder. Unless you are a fairly active person--I used to walk an hour a day around the park, but it's been too cold lately--I think you'll have to wind the watch. I share your apprehension about the crown stem. That issue was supposed to have been addressed, and there have been no reports on-line of the WAK2110 having the problems its predecessor had. However, recently I've been having some crown issues, the cause of which has yet to be determined.
 

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I had mine for 8 days now and it did not stop yet with a routine of wearing it 4-10 hours per day and leaving it on the table when I'm not. Hard to tell how much reserve is left tho.

I wish I could do some testing with the winder as well but the accuracy went from +5 to +12 after having it on the winder for a night (it is a really cheap ebay one and I think it may have magnetised it, other watches were fine on it so that is a bit mysterious), now it is slowly crawling down, +8,+7... with the same wearing habits and overnight positioning. I'm waiting for a bit longer before I think about getting it regulated under warranty.
Did you experience any "settling-in" period fresh out of the box or changes in accuracy?

I don't really get why the SW200 would lose its power reserve so easily. I've been wearing a 7750 daily for months and have never come close to depleting its power reserve, and that rotor only turns in one direction. I expected the bidirectional winding mechanism in the aquaracer to perform even better?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Winders simply maintain whatever reserve you have left.
Is that true? Even if you set the winder to a high TPD value, say 1000-2000?

(it is a really cheap ebay one and I think it may have magnetised it, other watches were fine on it so that is a bit mysterious)
I doubt the magnetic field of these winders is that strong. Plus the watches have some protection due to the movement cage from what I understand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I did the power reserve test: manual wind the watch a good 40 turns, left it on my desk dial up, didn't touch it at all and recorded accuracy and power reserve. My results: it ran for 41h 45min. which is very good for this movement, about +3 sec. per 24 hrs. and it seems to be consistent across the 41h time range. After 12 hrs it was +2 sec, after 24 hrs +3 sec and then at the 36 hr mark still at +3 sec.

What does this mean? I have no idea. The problem is the watch seems to run about -5 sec./day on my wrist and in the winder and it still stops after a few days in the winder. Does this point to a problem with the rotor not properly winding the spring?
 

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bugs me that I have waited extra days to get a watch fresh off the plane and then it turns out to be the least accurate of all WAK reviews I can find.. between +5 and +12 on the wrist, wound or worn actively, most often between 7 and 9s fast which is very annoying to me.

I don't hear a click when the clutch slips to prevent overwinding to know that it is fully wound - is there one?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I don't hear a click when the clutch slips to prevent overwinding to know that it is fully wound - is there one?
I think I hear a click on mine if I keep my ear close to it. And I would not be disappointed about 7-9 sec. accuracy as long as it is consistent and not all over the place which seems to be the case with these SW200 movements for some reason. I have/had ETA 2824 watches and they seemed to always be very consistent in how they ran, whether on my writs, in the winder, dial up, crown up, etc.
 

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I did the power reserve test: manual wind the watch a good 40 turns, left it on my desk dial up, didn't touch it at all and recorded accuracy and power reserve. My results: it ran for 41h 45min. which is very good for this movement, about +3 sec. per 24 hrs. and it seems to be consistent across the 41h time range. After 12 hrs it was +2 sec, after 24 hrs +3 sec and then at the 36 hr mark still at +3 sec.

What does this mean? I have no idea. The problem is the watch seems to run about -5 sec./day on my wrist and in the winder and it still stops after a few days in the winder. Does this point to a problem with the rotor not properly winding the spring?
It seems to me that a watch that has a good power reserve by manual winding but cannot hold that reserve to stay running on a winder or an active user, indicates a problem with the auto winding rotor system. You may have found the problem.
 

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I think I hear a click on mine if I keep my ear close to it. And I would not be disappointed about 7-9 sec. accuracy as long as it is consistent and not all over the place which seems to be the case with these SW200 movements for some reason. I have/had ETA 2824 watches and they seemed to always be very consistent in how they ran, whether on my writs, in the winder, dial up, crown up, etc.
it is in fact all over the place.
 

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Thought I would add one data point for a four month old WAK2110:

Is it normal for movements to run slow once their reserve is depleted? Do they get regulated to run well when they are fully "charged"?

Anyone else having a hard time with the power reserve in their Calibre 5 SW200 movements?
Mine has a ~40 hour reserve and does not slow down until the last 3-4 hours.

I wear it 10-14 hours a day. So far it stopped once overnight, this after a 3 day trip during which I sat in planes > 22 hours, then trains > 10 hours, and the rest in meetings or asleep. So the watch may be a good indicator that I need more exercise.

I would not be disappointed about 7-9 sec. accuracy as long as it is consistent and not all over the place which seems to be the case with these SW200 movements for some reason. I have/had ETA 2824 watches and they seemed to always be very consistent
I too feel 7-9 s/d is acceptable, especially in the beginning. Mine "settled" 2-3 s/day after the a couple weeks, then again another 1-2 s/d after 3 months.

My one experience with an SW200 is that so far it is quite consistent. ~ 2 s/d slower on my wrist vs. off, with minimal effect of positions, and minimal/no effect of wrist movement / shaking patterns. My one ETA behaved similarly (including the double settling).


Incidentally, I have not had a crown issue to date. But the bezel does move too easily, which is my one complaint.

BTW, could you experts advise a proper way to wind this watch by 'shaking'? Because of the purported crown issue, instead of unscrewing the crown and rewinding to restart the watch (after not wearing it), I shook it gently it side to side, face up, at 2 cycles per sec, for 7-8 minutes, and this seemed to work. Was this OK?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
BTW, could you experts advise a proper way to wind this watch by 'shaking'? Because of the purported crown issue, instead of unscrewing the crown and rewinding to restart the watch (after not wearing it), I shook it gently it side to side, face up, at 2 cycles per sec, for 7-8 minutes, and this seemed to work. Was this OK?
Would it work to just get it started by a few shakes and then have it in a winder running continuously for 30 min or so?
 

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Would it work to just get it started by a few shakes and then have it in a winder running continuously for 30 min or so?
It doesnt need to be running to put it in a winder. I never advise shaking the watch. It does nothing to power the watch for any extended period of time.

just wind the damn thing by the crown.

I cant believe how paranoid people are about winding a watch.
 

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If you are scared to unscrew the crown (I ignore it because it is under warranty and I expect it to be covered now, if you remember the position of the logo and know where the thread starts, it should not be a big issue anyway), instead of shaking, just swing the watch around in a circular motion to allow the rotor to swivel around.

I would always use the crown to get it going from 0 as you need quite a bit to get it up to a decent reserve just with the rotor.

I too feel 7-9 s/d is acceptable, especially in the beginning. Mine "settled" 2-3 s/day after the a couple weeks, then again another 1-2 s/d after 3 months.
Good, so I will wait and see if it settles (had it for about 3 weeks now) before taking it in for regulation.

I have noted that the watch, despite ugly fluctuations (5,12,8,6,9,...) is quite consistent over a few days - albeit at a crappy rate that I am actually not happy with as it makes it the most inaccurate watch I own (including non-COSC chronographs). At least it can be regulated after knowing what the watch settles in at.

Here's my pedestrian excel sheet including date/time of time check, hours between checks, seconds between checks and from start, seconds as calculated over 24h (so if the check was 12h apart, the value is taken times two and so on), and the three long-term averages I got from it.

Screen Shot 2014-01-09 at 11.14.21 am.png
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
It looks like mine has a problem: I gave it a full wind and put it in the winder, set to 864 TPD bi-directional. In theory this should keep it going forever. Unfortunately it stopped ticking after about 48 hrs which is not much better than keeping it on my desk (I got over 41 hrs out of that test). I also ran into a problem where one night the date didn't fully switch, it got stuck in between numbers (it corrected itself the following night though).
It seems that I have to send it in, under warranty (it comes from an AD).
It's so disappointing to see a watch of such value have these quality problems from the beginning. Now I'm starting to understand why some don't think highly of Tag :-(
 

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I wear my watch 17 hours per day and periodically rock my wrists as a pass time when I think of it. I almost never have to wind my watch and has never stopped in 3 years except when the hacking stops it for time setting. I find the degree of wind is more of an accuacy issue than preventing the watch from stopping.
 

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A common theme that has been arising is that the Calibre 5 does not seem to like being on a winder.
Seeing as you can't over-wind these things, why not put it on a something much much higher than the recommended tpd?

Running it at 6000 tpd will definitely tell you if something is wrong.
 
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