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The 2022 Watch Purchasing Abstinence Club (WPAC).

316478 Views 6601 Replies 157 Participants Last post by  bth1234
The 2022 Watch Purchasing Abstinence Club (WPAC).

Welcome to the 2022 Watch Purchasing Abstinence Club, otherwise known as WPAC. This is the 6th year of WPAC, which was started at the beginning of 2017 to try and get myself and some other addicts out of a crazy buying/flipping cycle with watches, we were buying for the sake of it rather than for the appreciation of the watch itself, constantly chasing the next, new shiny watch or searching endlessly, fixated on some watch; generally, IMHO, a rather unhealthy behaviour.

So, what is the point of WPAC? Well, the aim is to abstain from purchasing watches. But that's a bit blunt really, the abstinence is a tool or a method to break the cycle of buying/flipping and become a discerning consumer of horology. Learning to appreciate what you have, understand what works for you with watches and think rationally about purchases, rather than emotionally. Or the ethos of less is more, as some have suggested the philosophy is here. Yes we still love watches, but as we all know we can be weak, so WPAC is a place to get help; here you can take solace from like minded people and get support and encouragement to stop impulse buying.

With those that stick around and make some commitment WPAC has been successful; for me it's certainly helped me break the buy/flip cycle and stop obsessing, so maybe it can help you.

In previous years we've had some rules, but this year there aren't going to be, there seems little point when we all have subtly (sometimes massively) different goals. If you are in serious horological trouble with buying then look back at the OP in previous WPAC threads, the rules should be a useful starting point if you want to get things under control or just shout out here to get some advice, it's what we're good at. Think of it like a clubhouse or a WUS subforum dedicated to being friendly, chatting about everything and anything and where you can find like minded watch fans.

Having said that, there is one rule I'd like everyone to adhere to; first post should be an intro with a SOTC picture (include everything, don't cheat) and some goals/aims for 2022. Whether you want to abstain completely, want to save for a special watch, just need to take control, slow things down or whatever, we'll be happy to have everyone. Just as long as you're clear on what your aims are.

Please participate in the thread, it's what makes it what it is. Any reasonable topic of conversation is acceptable and in fact welcomed.

Bashing of any potential purchases should still be a mandatory element, but let's keep it funny. Nuclear level bashing is required for any actual purchases.
Expect to be challenged by others if you're suggesting a purchase, whatever your personal goals/aims and expect to need to defend yourself.

.....and one last thing, we do occasionally get some trolls visiting, let's agree to not feed them.

Edit - clarification on enabling: this is a difficult one to deal with as WPAC has evolved such that we discuss watches, post pictures, etc., previously we tried not doing that but it didn't really work and as well despite the temptation provided by this individuals need to develop the control to not be tempted every 5 minutes by something. However, this year we seem to have a mixture of regulars and new participants, and some the latter are wanting to abstain. Hence please don't directly enable by suggesting watches......
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@Hornet99
Well as you kindly pointed out the 2022 thread is live, I will direct my attention here from now on.

I am still awaiting 2 deliveries from last year, but I won't be buying any more in 2022. I will try to release some watches, but the first one I tried to sell has proved much harder than I expected, and still hasn't sold, which was a bit of a downer. Lucky I'm not desperate for funds.
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See the real trouble is I enjoy watches. I looked hard at a Seiko SNZG07. I am eternally tempted by Lilienthal watches, and so on. I won't get either of these, but I easily could.

The watches in my "for sale" section are not really offensive. I've just never bothered wearing them, and I would like to think they are easier to sell as a result. Doesn't seem to quite work though.
Nice to be home. I sort of feel at home on the WPAC thread. I have decided to keep a watch wearing log for this year. I am still on my first, although I did have a Speedmaster on for half an hour to consider a thread about them.

First serious test in a few days, as CW will most likely have some seasonal reductions that I will need to carefully avoid.
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The trouble with all this is that I like expensive stuff, but not the expensive prices Eg, Teddy Baldassarre reviewed a lovely dark blue JLC moon the other day as an alternative to a Reverso. It looked fantastic, but it's getting on for 10k, and that's well out of my comfort zone.
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Not really on topic, but since you're my gang now, I thought I'd share. In today's Los Angeles Times crossword:

clue: Fancy watch brand
answer: SEIKO
aaah. That's a cryptic clue then, slightly misleading. The art of the compiler! :D
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I like expensive things, but the reality is that like you I'm not prepared to pay the prices asked. With watches it feels like a balancing act of finding an attractive design, with the level of quality I desire, balanced against my natural scrooge-like attitude towards spending money. The unfortunate thing is that for me there is little or nothing in the affordables that hits that goldilocks zone......
Yes. I have bought Ali Express and Invicta watches in the £50 to £100 range, and I have enough of those now, although I haven't been disappointed.

Above that I have only bought Swiss watches and never paid full list. Decent sales, and occasional ebay purchases have worked for me. Occasionally I have missed opportunities that in retrospect cause a little regret, but overall I am very happy. I feel like I have enough watches now, and I am not actually hunting for more watches, but if I came across something, you never know.
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$150 on Amazon is not going to buy much of a watch unless you want a G-Shock or some other such Casio. You're a million times better off just using it on normal stuff and keeping that $150 to contribute to something more worthwhile.
You would get a few nice straps for that, or even an Invicta 1953.

I now feel like Rubeus Hagrid. I shouldn't have said that. Sorry. :oops:
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Shame on you! Suggesting an Invicta?!!
Well WPAC is in the affordables section. Invicta shouldn't be getting bad press here, surely.

Notwithstanding, 1953 is my birth year, and that watch is a terrific watch, very well reviewed, albeit a close clone of the original submariner. I bought the original with black bezel, and liked it so much I bought another with a different colour bezel, as invicta Europe keep having them on special offer. There's certainly worse ways of spending £100 :D

I now feel like Rubeus Hagrid. I shouldn't have said that. Sorry. :oops:
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Whether we should or should not be disparaging Invicta, we should refrain from enabling.......

......I'm looking at you brother bth1234.
Quite right. I was thinking of how to utilise a gift, but as I mentioned earlier, I now feel like Rubeus Hagrid, and I shouldn't have said that. Sorry. :oops:
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I probably shouldn't complain about Jody, here, in the affordables section, but most of the time, although I like his reviews, I am not really interested nowadays in the watches he is reviewing. I don't quite see why the WPAC is part of the "affordables" section to be honest. It's probably more relevant in the general "public" forum, isn't it?
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Aaargh!!

It is January 3rd. Two days ago I joined this group, posted my SOTC and said,



And this afternoon, after 18+ months on "the waiting list" that I became convinced didn't really exist, I got a call from my local Rolex AD. They are holding a new Explorer 36 for me that came in today. 😶

Truly I am beyond conflicted. You can't make this stuff up. Cosmic test of will, anyone?

My left brain (and one of our WPAC brethren who will remain nameless) is telling me it would be silly not to simply pick it up and flip it.

My wife thinks I should just get on with it. "You'll be buying one for less that it will be worth next week? And it's a Rolex? Why is there a question? It's not like you're buying a third Seiko 5..."

And there's a whole bunch of back and forth rationalization going through my head. Pick it up and keep it. (Don't buy it and keep it! A Rolex is theft bait! LOL) Turn a quick buck...?

One in one out? That's OK, right!!? I could sell an Oris to stay at 4. But that's not exactly a fiscal wash.

Mind you, no, I would not be going into hock to buy it, and the mortgage is in fact paid off...

OK - let the bashing (and hopefully some actual usefull feedback) begin.
I doubt they would let you take it away still with stickers on, but that would be a bonus.. in any event, the thought was that you could just do nothing with it while you consider the alternatives, (and get your name down for a Sub or a Daytona). Waiting a year or two to flip might not get your name on their naughty list.

It's hard not to consider the potential profit though. Were it not for that madness, I wouldn't be interested in a Rolex personally, but that's just me.
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To be honest, I don't think I would buy a Rolex even at list. Lets say it costs £6000 UK. Even if you see them advertised on chrono 24 for 12K, they aren't all forced to sell at that price. If you need to sell it to the GM dealer you are probably not going to get even half way there, so 8-9K would be a good selling price. To me, 6K is a lot to pay for a watch, and I am not sure I can tell where the extra 5K went. At 6K, I definitely want a display case back.

If you want to invest 6K, put it on the stock market, and you are as likely to see it grow as much as the watch, with considerably more liquidity and safety.

For the same reasons I certainly wouldn't dive in at 12K where there is even less upside, and considerably more downside. If you see the bandwagon, you are already too late.

I don't think actually the discussion is enabling. @AMM1959 signalled the possible AD call, and clearly is thinking carefully about the points that have been raised. Maybe he will still buy the watch, but maybe he won't. If he does, I certainly wish him good health to wear it.
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As it happens, alongside the WUS window in my screen, there was an advert for Mappin and Webb, part of Watches of Switzerland for a speedy at 15% off, but still £8190, so about $11000 US. That's out of my price range, and I am not sure I like the cushion case on this, (looked again and I definitely don't like the case) but as a generalisation it's the sort of thing that would appeal to me rather more than the more pedestrian Rolex. There's surely a load of alternatives when you get into Rolex money. This isn't intending to be enabling, just hopefully thought provoking.

It was this this watch, as it happens
Omega Speedmaster Mark II Two-Tone Sedna Mens Watch O32720435001001 | Mappin and Webb
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If it's just FOMO then surely the Zelos's of this world pull the same trick with all their aventurine meteorite dials, and the limited release numbers. Skillful although less of an earner, I should think.
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Well, I was perusing the Christopher Ward sale, half considering a couple of watches, against my better judgment, and they both sold and disappeared. Just as well. I kept my honour and dignity which are more important.
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Next time just post them here for bashing ;)
You don't have time to do that first. You have to buy them and return them if you don't like them, or if WPAC says so.
If you don't have time to post for bashing, then you know its the wrong decision. Treat it like buying a house - if the agent tells you you need to pull the trigger on the spot, you know you should walk away.

I bet you the only reason you considered it, is because of FOMO and not because of the actual watch. If you wanted the actual watch, then why did you only just now start considering it?

Hah, I got it first, and the others didn't get a chance! HAH HAH SUCKERS! LUCKY ME!
One week later: this watch sucks. Let the others have it. Sold.
well there's loads of watches I would like, but not at full price. A specific example. I would love a green Oris Aquis, 43mm, or even 41mm but not at full price of £1600 or so, and not above £1000. So occasionally I see what's on offer on ebay just in case. Now if a UK watch seller put these on sale at half price, say, maybe when Oris release an updated version, I would be in instantly. If it was blue or black, less so.

Hence the recent Tribus watches which were being sold at 70% off were terrific value. In my opinion. The ones I bought are instantly in my MVP box. (if I had one. I bought one at Christmas but didn't keep it.)

So it's the same with CW. A nice watch they sell normally for £1000 is suddenly on offer for between £500 and £600, so what was vaguely of interest before suddenly becomes vey interesting, although I would rather see watches reduced to below 50% of retail for them to be an instagrab. Other buyers are the same no doubt, so the CW sale items sell very quickly. You don't really get time to think. It's like Glastonbury tickets, although I wouldn't want a pop Festival ticket. And CW do have some watches I like very much.

So there's time to buy, then have it bashed, and return it for a refund. But there's generally no time to have it bashed in advance.

There's watch brands I don't know very well, so if they are discounted, I do need to do a bit of research first, but I am OK with some watches. So take Omega. I think I have fair idea of a good price on a speedmaster. An SMP, PO, AT, constellation etc, less so.

Cheers. :D
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@Trias

M. Trias
la langue dans la joue?
do you have that expression, and is la joue the right word?
...
with reference to those vacuum cleaners. It will work for Dyson cleaners, and GHD hair straighteners. 70% off, you'll be beating them off with a stick. :D
I'm a semi-recovered bargain hunting watch accumulator (as opposed to a serial flipper) and recognize a lot of rationalizations for buying new watches when I read them. You, my friend, seem to be in the mindset of acquiring more rather than enjoying what you have.

Are you keeping up on all the goings on of the watch market so that you recognize a bargain when it comes up for grabs in January 2023 after a year of abstinence? How will you deal with the temptations of recognizing a true bargain on a desired model during calendar year 2022?

I both acquire and enjoy acquiring
And this bit about buying before bashing, that's 2021 thinking, right? Your first post in this thread states your goal of abstaining for the year. That should include bargain buys, no?

Browsed though the thread and didn't see your current stable, any chance on a collection photo?

No, I am not paying much attention to the current market. I enjoy collecting watches as a pastime, and I enjoy the watches I have.

I don't expect to buy anything in 2022, and maybe for quite a while, but I do look and I know when I see something I like. For instance I would quite like a moon phase, but I'm not too keen on paying a substantial price for one. I enjoy this whole thread as much as any other, and it's nice to see discussions that aren't geared to helping people buy.

So I first turned up towards the end of last year. My intention is not to buy any more watches, and that won't be hard to do, but it's not a hard "no", whatever the watch cost. I have bought my first favourite, a speedy. My second favourite was a zenith chronomaster, but I doubt whether I will ever bother to get that one. So as I consider more expensive watches, it becomes a harder decision. Below $100 there's no thought needed, so if I saw something on AliX or see a cheap Seiko I fancy, I might get it, but I don't have any intention to get one. From $250 to $500 say it needs a bit more thought, and above that even more. That's all.

But for instance, I like the Chris Ward watches, which are already priced competitively, and when they have a sale with up to 50% off it's a good opportunity, and worth a look.

[edit]
Another thought. I just watched a new youtube by Andy of "The English Watch". He was discussing price rises, and noted that Rolex had just increased prices by about 10%, so a £6400 watch was now £7100, and he sort of dismissed this as if it was of no importance. I was quite surprised, given that I can get a very nice watch for that unimportant £700, never mind the other £6400.
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Other than the cachet of a big name brand, I must say I struggle to see the value.

Take watch straps, which I think are easier to compare. An omega alligator strap on their foldover clasp costs over £500. £300 plus for the leather, and £200 plus for the clasp. I asked Raymond Weil about a particular strap, and theirs were something like £200 for the (calf) leather and £90 for their unusual clasp (not concealed like Omega, and not a true butterfly). Can an Omega NATO really be worth £165? I expect Rolex straps are even dearer if you can find out. Is it that old chestnut "if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it?"

Now Christopher Ward sell a glorious cordovan watch strap, with a keeperless folding clasp similar to the omega, for £115. I challenge anyone to beat that CW strap. It will complement any watch at any price. I don't know actually know of any comparable strap, without keepers and with QR pins.

If the straps bear comparison in that way, then I certainly think the watches will as well, as do some other well made budget brands.
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