[jmariorebelo]

Happy new year yall, 13 pages in 3 days!

Trinkets or not, they bring a lot of enjoyment and that has a lot of value in itself.

Yes!

Curious to understand, for you, how that enjoyment manifests itself?

I'm bored on the train and actually spent a few minutes contemplating the question and how to answer it.

Back when I was studying in Lisbon and took these 4.5 hour train rides four times a month, I'd watch films and/or listen to music. These days I keep it mostly to music. Regardless, I'm on my own, nothing but strangers around. This is to say, music and cinema are something I enjoy deeply and for the vast majority do so alone, other than discussing it with my mates. See where I'm getting at?

When I pick my watch up in the morning, wind it, clean it and put it on my wrist, and glance (more like stare) at it throughout the day, I get an enjoyment akin to that of being sat on the train, earphones in, and drowning the outside world in my tunes. Or being at home, 1am, GnT in from of me, watching a film. Or, as I did back in my parents house, looking at magnificence of The Disintegration of the Persistence of Memory hanging on the wall over my working desk.

Of course, you can experience music, films and art in other, more socially active ways, such as going to a music festival, the cinema or a museum. Likewise you can go to watch meet-ups and yes, these are my favourite ways of experiencing said hobbies. As I've mentioned many times, the only thing better than the watches is the people we meet along the way. But we can't do that every day.

I know I haven't answered your question very well, but these comparisons are the best I can do.

 

[jmariorebelo]

Happy new year to everyone indeed !

And glad to see you around in WPAC 2022 after all, Jmario.

I'll say come and say hello from time to time 👍

In those 13 pages, quite a few members accurately described that they did enjoy the hunt, with the browsing, the search, the comparisons, the tries, the adrenaline of price negotiations (and sometimes even bids), etc.

But there are other ways to enjoy a watch in everyday, which you mention very well. That's why it's possible to control or even stop the desire-purchasing machine : taking one's time to enjoy what he has in the present instead of always awaiting the future. 🔍

I wasn't going to comment but noticed exactly that, most people answered the hunt, the "research", etc. Personally that falls more in the "interesting" camp rather than "enjoyment". I like to learn about watches the same way I like to learn about science and engineering, or keeping up to date with the developments on technology. But, for example, I have no interest in music theory, or how to read and write music, to keep the previous comparison rolling.

 

[jmariorebelo]

I'm not a member of WPAC, but I do lurk here in the shadows so as to not go too far off the wagon.

There's been some pretty good advice here so far, and I would add the following:
1. Clearly identify who is likely to be your target client and figure out good referral sources for those target clients. Take those people out to lunch/drinks whatever and ask how you can help THEM. (Not how they can help you.)
2. Figure out something that you can do a little different/better, and then educate everyone you meet, in a gentle educational way what your niche and expertise is.
3. Learn a good elevator speech or two. (How to explain who you are, what you do, what clients you are looking for - within the time it takes an elevator to go up a few floors.)
4. Consider joining a networking group. (Maybe one that includes contractors or other likely referral sources)
5. Answer the phone and return calls. Seriously, it's a little thing, but many just don't do it.
6. Set up a proper business and website. Make yourself look legitimate.
7. Be patient and take a side job until the work starts coming in if you need to.

Good luck.

This is very good advice, particularly points 1 and 3. Having a 30s summary of yourself and what you do pretty much ready to fire is incredibly useful, and something I'm still working on.

Another note, going back to watches. This seemingly small thing...

"ask how you can help THEM. (Not how they can help you.)"

...infuriates me and also happens in our hobby. Most of the time, when you buy a watch, you get a message from the brand saying "thank you for your purchase!". Some brands that think too highly of themselves will say "congratulations on your new watch!". See the difference? It's as if they're doing you a favour, by granting you permission to become part of the family.

 

[jmariorebelo]

Exactly. Many have had similar buying fits that eventually led us to WPAC. During a 6 month period in 2018, I bought 50 watches. It was then I knew I had a problem...

That's... impressive. Probably not in a good way.

I'm with Hornet on this one.

One of the first lessons I learned in WPAC was to develop a list of things I didn't love about watches (case size, thickness, dial colors, complications, etc) and create a fixed list of unacceptable watch criteria, as long as possible, to help me weed out a lot of the new shiny things that were tempting me. Today, it seems silly that I was buying anything from 35mm to 44mm during my crazy buying spree of 2018, but without a little WPAC discipline, I was grabbing anything at a good price with a swiss movement that looked interesting.

Yeah, a list of criteria is a list of justifications to NOT buy a watch.

All we have to do is make them narrow enough and then there won't be a watch out there worth buying 😁

 

[jmariorebelo]

Oh, lol...

But still...1200 bucks is 1200 bucks...

Think of all the watches you could have not bought with that money!

 

[jmariorebelo]

Lots of list talk but no action. So here goes

1. Angular case with clean facets.
2. Light but durable
3. Bracelet option
4. Dial with a pattern of some sort or deep color, no washed out dials
5. Quartz is fine, for an automatic18 kbph is OK, 28.8 kbph plus is great, anything in between is annoying.
6. Some sort of pedigree in its assumed role (e.g. a diving watch from a company that has been making diving watches for awhile, etc)
6. Bonus points if it's not a common sight, I get bored easy with frequently photographed and touted watches even without owning them.

Might as well. This is why I say criteria are a reason not to buy. Mine take a lot, and I do mean a lot, of the market out of contention. I don't go searching for watches that fit, rather disregard all that I come across that fall short. All of them have an importance rating of 10/10, otherwise they wouldn't be there.

Objective criteria:

• diameter under 38mm.
• lug to lug under 46mm.
• case thickness under 10mm (excluding crystal).
• handwound movement.
• Well proportioned hands (H hand points to H markers, M hand points to minute track).
• time only, however complications are included. I like watches that take the purest form of time telling to the extreme (aka Breguet 7047 and 7727, GP Constant Escapement).
• standard, non proprietary lugs.

Subjective criteria:

• interesting, colorful dial.
• "good" enough that I expect to wear it in place of my current watches at least once a week, maybe even displacing one of them permanently.
• legible enough. Debatable... Is a Breguet 7027 legible? I don't know.
• no design oversights. Also debatable. For example, the Armin Strom Tribute 1 below is beautiful, but the way the seconds hand overlaps the barrel is impossible for me to unsee, and is probably an unredeemable dealbreaker. It just looks sloppy.

 

[jmariorebelo]

Criteria:
Diver-style no larger than 40mm x 48mm
Fixed bezel 36-38mm x <46mm
If arabic indexes, upright numbers
No Roman numeral indexes
No Mercedes hands
Not too precious.
Sport/utility/GADA style
No chronographs
Lugs with significant drop, so that the springbar holes are close to level with the case back.
Female endlinks preferred, but if male endlink provides enough drop (NTH subs), not a deal killer.

I have a hard time wearing "nice" dress watches on a daily basis, knowing they will most likely get knocked around. Scrapes, scratches, and scuffs on a sport watch = wabi sabi, patina, etc. On a dress watch = ugly evidence of clumsy oafishness.

Never been one for chronographs, and lately am turned off even by most GMT. Same, actually, with divers. Specifically, outside BSH examples, I really don't even have a proper diver, with dive timing bezel.

All that, and there are still too many watches which fit even the pickiest criteria, out in the world...

.
.
.

Not too precious.

On another note, interesting how you dislike mercedes hands so much but come to like snowflakes...

 

[jmariorebelo]

NFT's are a great example of how bonkers ppl can go when they think they're operating in a virtual "not real" world. But the real threath is in when ppl start applying crazy ideas of the online world to reality.

I honestly believe someone was getting tired of having to dress and go to the laundromat to wash their money, so they came up with a way of using blockchain to do so from their sofas. Because those monkey jpegs are inherently worthless, and nobody sane would spend hundreds of $k on a useless cryptographic proof...

 

[jmariorebelo]

Try wearing one watch for the whole week and then extend it further. It really forces you to appreciate the watch and normalises the act of having one watch as it were, rather than many....

I can't do a full month. Can do two weeks, but every passing day is an ever harder test to my resolve... of not selling everything.

As usual took my Farer to the new year celebrations. All in all it was 11 days straight on my wrist, sleep included, only taking it off to shower. And every time I do something like this I start having the same thoughts:

"oh I could so easily be a one watch guy, I do have the other two at home but one is plenty. It's actually kinda cool to be wearing the same watch all the time"

Which immediately evolves to:

"how about I sell these three and get that insert_expensive_watch_here I've been eyeing for years? Then I could wear just the one!"

It's the one internal conflict I can't settle for good. I love my trio and would miss them lots if they were gone, but sometimes can't help but wonder what if. And I don't like that what if...

 

[jmariorebelo]

Yeah, I've been in that situation; thinking one watch would be enough but then you think "well, what about this as a beater....." and its off down the slippery slope. If you have satisfaction in what you have then there isn't much point in upsetting things.

That's why I tend to rotate through them at will, no need to destroy my current state of bliss....

What would it be? The one watch to rule them all?

Say you had 3 watches worth a combined $10k, you could sell these and buy one watch and wear it all the time. But there are going to be occasions when you don't feel that wearing a $10k watch is appropriate, so what do you do then? Well not spend 10k on the only watch you have. So you look for a compromise, not too expensive but not cheap, not a totally toolish watch but not dressy. BB58 anyone? I'm fairly sure that the optimal number of watches is > 1 and < 5.

Now we're getting to the root of the question. Truth is any of the three I own now could be it. After all, they are the ones leading to this hypothetical scenario in the first place. I could honestly live with just one of them. So why don't I? Because I don't need to. While I think half a dozen watches is too much for me, I also like some variety. Can afford them, so no need to sell.

You might ask then, why the second part of my previous comment, the one about selling them all and chose another one? This is where the start of your second paragraph comes into play. Imagining three watches at 3k each, it somehow feels a "waste" to become a one watch guy at that same price point. I would already have the 10k tied up in watches, obviously the best thing to do is condense all of it in just one. If I could get something even better, why not? Right??? I've said a few times that we shouldn't fall the for ever-more-expensive-purchases trap, yet I can't fully escape the idea myself.

As for which watch, I don't know for sure. There are a few options on my list, watches I entertain the idea of owning one day. Mentioned a few in past posts, for example Breguet 5907 or 7027, GS SBGY007, Dornbluth Q2010, Hentschel H1 1877, Kudoke 1, Laine V38, or even a Rolex 5442/5 (I've liked this one since before I created a WUS account but tbh I don't think I have the swag for it 😁). The "one" is probably the 7027BB/11, always come back to it...

Regarding the appropriateness of wearing a very expensive watch, all of this, including the trio, assumes that the Casio Royale is always lurking in the background (cheap enough to slip through the cracks of the argument?)

You have a lovely collection and as much as you might want to sell them for one watch, I'd hate to see you let them go... [but dibs on the Farer if you do decide to sell 🤣 ]

One of the three might be going in the next 6 months, it's indeed the Farer, but only if one of their upcoming handwounds somehow manages to top the Hudson (which I doubt). The anordain and Fears aren't going anywhere. Interestingly I created an instagram profile about a month ago and have had a few people ask if the former is for sale...

 

[jmariorebelo]

You'd give up those three classics for a skeleton watch...?

View attachment 16362793

No, I would never.....

Edit: to get a bit more into it, the dial of the 7027 is absolutely tiny, just 15mm in diameter.... and that alone will probably be a deal breaker. But I'l be damned if I don't like the rest...

I think anOrdain is finally getting some of the recognition it deserves, with used pricing now just starting to Ming.

No idea about used prices but the most recent batch sold out in 1 or 2 minutes apparently.

 

[jmariorebelo]

I had to look up the reference, and my initial reaction was truly, "He'd sell off those three watches? For that???

I mean, I get it, high end, historic brand with a sterling reputation, gorgeous workmanship on display.

Just yeah... legibility for one. To me, it's less about timekeeping, and more about the craft of horology. Difference in what you want out of a watch. I'd have a real hard time with something like that as an only watch, where it doesn't do the one thing I like a watch to do for me most...

Oh I wouldn't sell the trio for that or any other watch around their combined worth, if I wanted to I would have done so already. I'm just rambling.

I see what you mean, on that specific Breguet timetelling isn't one of the main considerations, rather a happy coincidence. And I don't like that too much, no. Two more examples, Voutilainen 28ti and Akrivia AK-06. World class examples of, as you so well put it, the craft of horology, but even less legible.

The more I think about it the more I come to the same conclusions I had about the Ophion 786 Velos, back when I was shopping the Fears. It's an impressive watch, beautiful no doubt, but one of those I don't need to own. As much as the idea of owning it is alluring, reality would never be as good because it doesn't fit me. I just need to remind myself of this fact more frequently.

 

[jmariorebelo]

I'd respectfully suggest that to qualify for being world class horology being able to clearly tell the time would be high on the list of required attributes......

Touché

 

[jmariorebelo]

For George Daniels, possibly the greatest horologist of the last 50 years, the challenge was to compete with quartz by making a mechanical watch that was more accurate, more robust, easier to read and beautiful to look at. It feels as though that challenge was successful enough that watch designers no longer feel the need to chase the same ideals (with a few honourable exceptions).

Not quite, this specific Breguet is a modern reinterpretation of the pocket watch ref 960 made by the man himself over 200 years ago. They did a great job with the gear train layout, it must be said.

 

[jmariorebelo]

I'm aware of what they did, I'm just unsure why they did it. It's like when Minis, Beetles and Fiat 500s were reimagined, they made punchy, efficient, modern cars with a clear nod to the original design; they didn't try to make them as weedy, uncomfortable and unreliable as the original.

It's all subjective and if you like it, you like it, it's all good. For me to like it, I would have like to have seen a watch that is clearly designed on the basis of the one pictured but legible and 100+hrs pr @4 hz, dress watch thickness etc.

Forgive me, I've just realised how rude it was to ask you what your dream watch would be, then trash it. I considered deleting but then thought that the whole notion of 'how authentic should a retro design be?' was quite interesting in its own right.

Or maybe it isn't.

No worries!, we're here for that. Definitely not rude.

Another thing I like is car restomods, particularly the legendary work of Singer (who also sell an agengraphe powered watch) and Alfaholics. They take old designs and fit it with old technology developed through modern means, just as in that Breguet. There's a charm to it a can't quite explain but that I like a lot. Getting to your question of how authentic it is, personally I'd say just right. It's not like breguet created a movement without shock protection, it is modern. Just looks old. And tiny. Why does the dial have to be so tinyyyyy....

I've checked a 7057 in an AD before, the 40mm version of that watch. From stock photos the dial is considerably larger (15mm vs 18mm), but tbh I was so taken aback by the whole thing I don't even remember thinking about legibility.

Anyway, it's not as if I could afford it even if I wanted to, so this discussion is a purely academic exercise and no harm done.

 

[jmariorebelo]

The specific 5711 model Nautilus is not the cash cow. The general Nautilus design is the cash cow - and they're milking it by keeping on making endless variations on it. You don't milk a cash cow by just keeping selling the same exact thing - you milk it by selling ever new permutations of the same exact thing. You need to at least pretend you're innovating, or the cow will run dry...

Case in point, the beautiful and brave green fumé Royal Oak. And even won a GPHG award ("Iconic" category, because of course)

What a load of horseshite.

 

[jmariorebelo]

Saga Jan '22, cont'd

I had some watches incoming from 2021.

Expecting 3 immediately, I also received a freebie I was not expecting. Of those 4, the surprise gift was turned around next day to new recipient. One listed for sale. One keeper. One on the fence.

See if you can tell which is which:

View attachment 16365234

ohh I want to play

I'll say keeper Sinn, the two divers flip the black and undecided on the blue, and the thing on the left was gifted.

My Q1 recap, now postponed to mid-Feb due to delay with pre-order watch, will then be my 2022 starting point, with no other purchases planned.

Looking forward to seeing that

 

[jmariorebelo]

Beat me to it. Was going to say the same.

Should have stayed quiet 😅

2/4 Not bad...

It's like we're playing Mastermind. Now that was a game...

 

[jmariorebelo]

2/4

I hope this is as much fun for y'all as it is for me...

It sure is.

I think we can say for sure that the Sinn is gone...

 

[jmariorebelo]

Ding Ding Ding!

View attachment 16365419

12: BSH Shenanigans in a TC5503 case with hi-dome acrylic. Wearing it today, absolute stunner.
3: Sinn, ah, Sinn. 656 is as perfect as it might get. One more chance for one of these. Yes, multiple Scorpenes notwithstanding,
6: Gifted Shenanigans watch; regifted as I chose to keep the blue bezel version.
9: Dgaz Cav1 Type2. So hot for this, missed the pre-order and cursed my fate, this one came up, and... just doesn't do it for me IRL.

I got there just before you posted, but took me an embarrassingly long time. The fact you have two colourways of the same watch and one was gifted really messed me up.

Great stuff, we should do this again, please buy a few more watches 😁