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The 2022 Watch Purchasing Abstinence Club (WPAC).

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Hornet99
The 2022 Watch Purchasing Abstinence Club (WPAC).

Welcome to the 2022 Watch Purchasing Abstinence Club, otherwise known as WPAC. This is the 6th year of WPAC, which was started at the beginning of 2017 to try and get myself and some other addicts out of a crazy buying/flipping cycle with watches, we were buying for the sake of it rather than for the appreciation of the watch itself, constantly chasing the next, new shiny watch or searching endlessly, fixated on some watch; generally, IMHO, a rather unhealthy behaviour.

So, what is the point of WPAC? Well, the aim is to abstain from purchasing watches. But that's a bit blunt really, the abstinence is a tool or a method to break the cycle of buying/flipping and become a discerning consumer of horology. Learning to appreciate what you have, understand what works for you with watches and think rationally about purchases, rather than emotionally. Or the ethos of less is more, as some have suggested the philosophy is here. Yes we still love watches, but as we all know we can be weak, so WPAC is a place to get help; here you can take solace from like minded people and get support and encouragement to stop impulse buying.

With those that stick around and make some commitment WPAC has been successful; for me it's certainly helped me break the buy/flip cycle and stop obsessing, so maybe it can help you.

In previous years we've had some rules, but this year there aren't going to be, there seems little point when we all have subtly (sometimes massively) different goals. If you are in serious horological trouble with buying then look back at the OP in previous WPAC threads, the rules should be a useful starting point if you want to get things under control or just shout out here to get some advice, it's what we're good at. Think of it like a clubhouse or a WUS subforum dedicated to being friendly, chatting about everything and anything and where you can find like minded watch fans.

Having said that, there is one rule I'd like everyone to adhere to; first post should be an intro with a SOTC picture (include everything, don't cheat) and some goals/aims for 2022. Whether you want to abstain completely, want to save for a special watch, just need to take control, slow things down or whatever, we'll be happy to have everyone. Just as long as you're clear on what your aims are.

Please participate in the thread, it's what makes it what it is. Any reasonable topic of conversation is acceptable and in fact welcomed.

Bashing of any potential purchases should still be a mandatory element, but let's keep it funny. Nuclear level bashing is required for any actual purchases.
Expect to be challenged by others if you're suggesting a purchase, whatever your personal goals/aims and expect to need to defend yourself.

.....and one last thing, we do occasionally get some trolls visiting, let's agree to not feed them.

Edit - clarification on enabling: this is a difficult one to deal with as WPAC has evolved such that we discuss watches, post pictures, etc., previously we tried not doing that but it didn't really work and as well despite the temptation provided by this individuals need to develop the control to not be tempted every 5 minutes by something. However, this year we seem to have a mixture of regulars and new participants, and some the latter are wanting to abstain. Hence please don't directly enable by suggesting watches......
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sinner777
AMM1959 said:
Aaargh!!

It is January 3rd. Two days ago I joined this group, posted my SOTC and said,



And this afternoon, after 18+ months on "the waiting list" that I became convinced didn't really exist, I got a call from my local Rolex AD. They are holding a new Explorer 36 for me that came in today.

Truly I am beyond conflicted. You can't make this stuff up. Cosmic test of will, anyone?

My left brain (and one of our WPAC brethren who will remain nameless) is telling me it would be silly not to simply pick it up and flip it.

My wife thinks I should just get on with it. "You'll be buying one for less that it will be worth next week? And it's a Rolex? Why is there a question? It's not like you're buying a third Seiko 5..."

And there's a whole bunch of back and forth rationalization going through my head. Pick it up and keep it. (Don't buy it and keep it! A Rolex is theft bait! LOL) Turn a quick buck...?

One in one out? That's OK, right!!? I could sell an Oris to stay at 4. But that's not exactly a fiscal wash.

Mind you, no, I would not be going into hock to buy it, and the mortgage is in fact paid off...

OK - let the bashing (and hopefully some actual usefull feedback) begin.
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I still dont understand the whole "rolex investment" scheme.

So...you will invest around 8k Something into piece of steel. That you will sell for more. Ok... Got that part.

On the other hand... There is ton of unsold brand new Rolex... Well... Every where. Open CH24. You will get a flood of all kinds of R... With prices well above retail.

So... You have invested some money into Something that will eventually sell for a bit more... If the bubble does not burst. Any... And I mean any... Finacial adviser if you explained him that you had to wait a year and a half to purchase something that you will have to hold on to for a year or so (do they even hand you the papers at the moment or do they Keep it for a While just so you dont sell it right away? If you do that you will get on Black list, you are aware of it?) that you have no idea it will sell at the time.... Well... It looks like an overblown investment scam to me.

It reminds me of Panerai mania few years ago.

IF you are going to wear it... Ok... No argue. Just wear it. It is great watch. Any rolex is actually a great watch.


But... All these "oh look at my watch... I actually had to wait for a year and a half for it.

No.. Its not Limited. Its regular model one of dozen thousand made each month.

.. Its made of Steel. No... Not meteorite Steel. No... They did not go through 12 tasks to collect 4 ounces of Steel that thay made it from...

No its not handmade... Why are you asking all these questions?"

Srsly. Dude. Its no brainer. Get it. But.. Wear it. Dont be one of the douches that keeps it in safe.

You Know Rolexes have feelings. They are neglected that way.
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A
AMM1959 said:
Aaargh!!

It is January 3rd. Two days ago I joined this group, posted my SOTC and said,



And this afternoon, after 18+ months on "the waiting list" that I became convinced didn't really exist, I got a call from my local Rolex AD. They are holding a new Explorer 36 for me that came in today. 😶

Truly I am beyond conflicted. You can't make this stuff up. Cosmic test of will, anyone?

My left brain (and one of our WPAC brethren who will remain nameless) is telling me it would be silly not to simply pick it up and flip it.

My wife thinks I should just get on with it. "You'll be buying one for less that it will be worth next week? And it's a Rolex? Why is there a question? It's not like you're buying a third Seiko 5..."

And there's a whole bunch of back and forth rationalization going through my head. Pick it up and keep it. (Don't buy it and keep it! A Rolex is theft bait! LOL) Turn a quick buck...?

One in one out? That's OK, right!!? I could sell an Oris to stay at 4. But that's not exactly a fiscal wash.

Mind you, no, I would not be going into hock to buy it, and the mortgage is in fact paid off...

OK - let the bashing (and hopefully some actual usefull feedback) begin.
Click to expand...
Interesting that you're talking about moving on an Oris to keep you at 4 when the Orises are not in direct competition, the AT is. Unless the size is radically different, which leads to more questions.

Good luck, it's a nice dilemma to have.
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Hornet99
sinner777 said:
I still dont understand the whole "rolex investment" scheme.

So...you will invest around 8k Something into piece of steel. That you will sell for more. Ok... Got that part.

On the other hand... There is ton of unsold brand new Rolex... Well... Every where. Open CH24. You will get a flood of all kinds of R... With prices well above retail.

So... You have invested some money into Something that will eventually sell for a bit more... If the bubble does not burst. Any... And I mean any... Finacial adviser if you explained him that you had to wait a year and a half to purchase something that you will have to hold on to for a year or so (do they even hand you the papers at the moment or do they Keep it for a While just so you dont sell it right away? If you do that you will get on Black list, you are aware of it?) that you have no idea it will sell at the time.... Well... It looks like an overblown investment scam to me.

It reminds me of Panerai mania few years ago.

IF you are going to wear it... Ok... No argue. Just wear it. It is great watch. Any rolex is actually a great watch.


But... All these "oh look at my watch... I actually had to wait for a year and a half for it.

No.. Its not Limited. Its regular model one of dozen thousand made each month.

.. Its made of Steel. No... Not meteorite Steel. No... They did not go through 12 tasks to collect 4 ounces of Steel that thay made it from...

No its not handmade... Why are you asking all these questions?"

Srsly. Dude. Its no brainer. Get it. But.. Wear it. Dont be one of the douches that keeps it in safe.

You Know Rolexes have feelings. They are neglected that way.
Click to expand...
F*cking enablers........
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sinner777
Cmoon Hornet. You get what I am aiming at.

There is a difference between "oh look I have a Rolex. Nobody gives a Damn. Its a watch" and "oh my goood i am on the list and after elephant pregnancy period i finally got it. Now i am gonna take a few snapshots of it, put it in box and wait for the incoming PM. In the meantime i will not wear it because someone will rob me. But i will also post 1376 pictures of it on Instagram, with my car and house in background and inspirational quotes. I am Sure no one will find my house. I am succesful. I have a Rolex."
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AMM1959
First off, thank you all for your perspectives.

Lee_K said:
Carefully-made and considered purchases are something that all of us should be striving for, and you even posted in your SOTC that a phone call from your AD was a possibility.
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Yes, and I truly agree with that objective.

TgeekB said:
Spoiler alert: I would keep it and wear the hell out of it.
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That would be the idea if I kept it and sold another.

sinner777 said:
IF you are going to wear it... Ok... No argue. Just wear it. It is great watch. Any rolex is actually a great watch.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I don't invest in watches, I enjoy them. My home is for living in, and index funds are for investing (and Jack Bogle is my guiding light.) I don't do safe queens. It's just silly to me.

Aaah said:
Interesting that you're talking about moving on an Oris to keep you at 4 when the Orises are not in direct competition, the AT is.
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That is an excellent point that I need to reflect on. Really, I find the AT more formal and a bit less classic, but there's no question that both are luxury level GADAs. Two of the best and they really are in the same class. Notwithstanding, the BCPD Bronze is more historically grounded as a design, which is why I immediately thought of it as "more like" the E36 for wear.

Hornet99 said:
F*cking enablers........
Click to expand...
Right!!? Maybe this is the "2022 WPAC (except if you keep a small collection and trip over your grail) ". :sneaky:

Well, I have a good bit to think about. Again, my thanks.

Cheers!
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Wimads
sinner777 said:
Cmoon Hornet. You get what I am aiming at.

There is a difference between "oh look I have a Rolex. Nobody gives a Damn. Its a watch" and "oh my goood i am on the list and after elephant pregnancy period i finally got it. Now i am gonna take a few snapshots of it, put it in box and wait for the incoming PM. In the meantime i will not wear it because someone will rob me. But i will also post 1376 pictures of it on Instagram, with my car and house in background and inspirational quotes. I am Sure no one will find my house. I am succesful. I have a Rolex."
Click to expand...
Or you can just buy a Vostok and have people mistake it for a Rolex 👌

For the ppl actually considering it, no don't do it.... take any dive watch you already own, it'll do the trick.
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Wimads
Hornet99 said:
F*cking enablers........
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May have been a mistake removing the rules from the OP 😛🙃
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Hornet99
AMM1959 said:
First off, thank you all for your perspectives.



Yes, and I truly agree with that objective.



That would be the idea if I kept it and sold another.



Exactly. I don't invest in watches, I enjoy them. My home is for living in, and index funds are for investing (and Jack Bogle is my guiding light.) I don't do safe queens. It's just silly to me.



That is an excellent point that I need to reflect on. Really, I find the AT more formal and a bit less classic, but there's no question that both are luxury level GADAs. Two of the best and they really are in the same class. Notwithstanding, the BCPD Bronze is more historically grounded as a design, which is why I immediately thought of it as "more like" the E36 for wear.



Right!!? Maybe this is the "2022 WPAC (except if you keep a small collection and trip over your grail) ". :sneaky:

Well, I have a good bit to think about. Again, my thanks.

Cheers!
Click to expand...
Whether you buy the Rolex or not and if you buy it and sell it to make a profit is entirely up to you. If you sell something else to make room for it, again entirely down to you.

I just wanted to comment that it feels like there's a general trend within WPAC, which I disagree with, of high end luxury watches getting an easier ride here. They are still watches whatever the price or name on the dial.

What YOU need to decide is what is right for you here and keep to whatever it was you wanted to achieve.
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tresconik
My first post is a little late. Most of my collection is in another country and I can't take a picture of the SOTC, but I went crazy with purchases over the last few months and I think I have more watches than I could need.

I remember being 12 and my dad getting me a Timex Expedition on a whim. That is still my favourite watch, and I still have it. The watch had a pressed clasp, mineral crystal, folded end links, and a brass case, but it meant the world to me, and I took it everywhere.

Fast forward to now, and I have dress watches which I need to take off before washing my hands, divers which are too big for me, vostoks I bought just because they were cheap and hyped, and more along those lines.

I was serious, recently, about buying a Tissot quartz to recreate the one watch feeling the Timex gave me, but then I realise I don't really need so much watch. I just need a simple steel case, a quartz movement, and a day and date complication in a watch small enough to fit comfortably on my wrist and formal enough to wear to the office, while practical enough to go camping.

And that is the watch I'm trying to avoid buying. It seems like my SKX is a great all rounder, but I can't wear it professionally, my old Favre Leubas and Titus are too old to take outdoors with me, the quartz watches I have are way too big for my wrist (I love the 36mm size), and so I feel the need to buy that one 'exit watch'.

Anyway, I thought I'd share what I'm struggling with right now. I'd get rid of most of my collection in a heartbeat. I'm not attached to any watch but the SKX. But selling and shipping is a right pain to deal with.
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Hornet99
sinner777 said:
Cmoon Hornet. You get what I am aiming at.
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Nope......
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Hornet99
tresconik said:
My first post is a little late. Most of my collection is in another country and I can't take a picture of the SOTC, but I went crazy with purchases over the last few months and I think I have more watches than I could need.

I remember being 12 and my dad getting me a Timex Expedition on a whim. That is still my favourite watch, and I still have it. The watch had a pressed clasp, mineral crystal, folded end links, and a brass case, but it meant the world to me, and I took it everywhere.

Fast forward to now, and I have dress watches which I need to take off before washing my hands, divers which are too big for me, vostoks I bought just because they were cheap and hyped, and more along those lines.

I was serious, recently, about buying a Tissot quartz to recreate the one watch feeling the Timex gave me, but then I realise I don't really need so much watch. I just need a simple steel case, a quartz movement, and a day and date complication in a watch small enough to fit comfortably on my wrist and formal enough to wear to the office, while practical enough to go camping.

And that is the watch I'm trying to avoid buying. It seems like my SKX is a great all rounder, but I can't wear it professionally, my old Favre Leubas and Titus are too old to take outdoors with me, the quartz watches I have are way too big for my wrist (I love the 36mm size), and so I feel the need to buy that one 'exit watch'.

Anyway, I thought I'd share what I'm struggling with right now. I'd get rid of most of my collection in a heartbeat. I'm not attached to any watch but the SKX. But selling and shipping is a right pain to deal with.
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Totally understand about the selling, I can't stand doing it. Which makes a powerful argument for either keeping what you have and learning to appreciate it or to buy wisely next time and make it a keeper rather than a momentary whim. If you want my advice I'd suggest not doing anything right now, take time to understand what you want, what you need and what works for you (right size for your wrist?!). That's gotta be the springboard for what you do next.....
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Wimads
Hornet99 said:
Whether you buy the Rolex or not and if you buy it and sell it to make a profit is entirely up to you. If you sell something else to make room for it, again entirely down to you.

I just wanted to comment that it feels like there's a general trend within WPAC, which I disagree with, of high end luxury watches getting an easier ride here. They are still watches whatever the price or name on the dial.

What YOU need to decide is what is right for you here and keep to whatever it was you wanted to achieve.
Click to expand...
Its a trend that's been going on for years here... its just another justification.

You latched onto it as well with your expensive "exit" watches btw...
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mconlonx
AMM1959 said:
First off, thank you all for your perspectives.
Click to expand...
Buy the Rolex. Wear it. See if it really is all that. AD called, wife is on board, you can afford it... WPAC allows for one exception per year, so go for it. Especially considering waitlist, instant financial appreciation, near legend status, etc.

If you like it, you're done. If not, sell at a profit.

Personally, there's just not a single Rolex that thrills me enough to do that kind of cash outlay. Best I could come up with would be a DJ36 or OP36, and I find faults in both which would rule them out. Explorer especially... not sure what it is, but it just does not do it for me, even in 36mm. Odd, because I just adore my new Tudor BB36.

In any case, call it your annual exception watch. If it meets or exceeds your expectations, you won't want to buy another watch this year. If it doesn't, flip it and wait for next year...
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B
A little food for thought on the whole Rolex Explorer grail discussion related to watch purchasing abstinence: if there truly is a watch that you believe strongly will tamp down the buying mania, which I think is what the WPAC is all about, gaining control, then it can be a great move to pick up that grail watch, and shed whatever stops getting wrist time as a result. Nothing else will measure up, you'll want to wear it all the time, and buying other watches will start to seem a little silly. If that's not what the result of buying that grail watch will be, then perhaps it's not really such a grail, or perhaps you should hit pause? Just my $.02. I can say categorically that buying my actual grail was a huge part of killing my own watch buying mania. A great watch will do something for you that buying a merely good watch won't, at least in my experience. But, know thyself and beware the false grails... I bought one watch after getting the Tutima, and shouldn't have even bothered with that one in hindsight. The grail vastly dominates the wrist time.

I think there's a searching and subsequent lack of fulfillment that can come when chasing something elusive. If you can put your finger on that elusive set of properties and can find it, rather than buying placeholders and lesser substitutes, that can itself be the source of stopping flipping. Again, just food for thought. If you're buying because you're settling instead of buying what you really want, that itself can be the problem. At least that's what I found. Again, know thyself and beware false grails...

Picture of my grail because pictures...


Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
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Hornet99
Wimads said:
Its a trend that's been going on for years here... its just another justification.

You latched onto it as well with your expensive "exit" watches btw...
Click to expand...
Well, I'm glad that I'm not the only one noticing it.....

.....you're probably right about my own justifications on failed "exit" watches.
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Hornet99
mconlonx said:
... WPAC allows for one exception per year, so go for it.
Click to expand...
No rules on exceptions this year.
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B
To be honest, I don't think I would buy a Rolex even at list. Lets say it costs £6000 UK. Even if you see them advertised on chrono 24 for 12K, they aren't all forced to sell at that price. If you need to sell it to the GM dealer you are probably not going to get even half way there, so 8-9K would be a good selling price. To me, 6K is a lot to pay for a watch, and I am not sure I can tell where the extra 5K went. At 6K, I definitely want a display case back.

If you want to invest 6K, put it on the stock market, and you are as likely to see it grow as much as the watch, with considerably more liquidity and safety.

For the same reasons I certainly wouldn't dive in at 12K where there is even less upside, and considerably more downside. If you see the bandwagon, you are already too late.

I don't think actually the discussion is enabling. @AMM1959 signalled the possible AD call, and clearly is thinking carefully about the points that have been raised. Maybe he will still buy the watch, but maybe he won't. If he does, I certainly wish him good health to wear it.
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mconlonx
It's funny...

Conjecture about Rolex is just so much armchair speculation on my end.

I can't afford one, even at MSRP. I don't particularly want one. So I wouldn't be on an AD list for one.

And even if I could afford one, I'd probably be looking at other watches - I don't particularly care for Submariners, would opt for a GO SeaQ instead; forget OP/DJ/E1, a Cartier Santos Medium would get the nod if I had $6k burning a hole in my pocket. I.e. watches I could get right now, rather than waiting more than a year for when/if I get The Call.

---------------------------

WPAC conundrum: You bought into a pre-order to the tune of two watches, $50/ea, at pre-order pricing, full price to be invoiced at fulfillment, when watches are in stock and ready to ship. Do you:

a) Ignore the invoice, forfeit your $100 deposit, "$100 is small price to pay to maintain my WPAC dignity!" and not have to deal with headache of flipping.
b) Pay out on the invoice, know that you will be tempted to keep at least one, but if you follow through with sale of both, you stand to make money selling at current retail vs. preorder pricing?

Although previous sale of this brand and model have indicated that it should be no problem flipping for full retail between preorder release and follow-up general release, there is always a greater than zero chance you may lose money on the deal, potentially even more than the deposit value.

What say WPAC?
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cortman
Friends don't let friends buy Rolex in 2022.
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B
As it happens, alongside the WUS window in my screen, there was an advert for Mappin and Webb, part of Watches of Switzerland for a speedy at 15% off, but still £8190, so about $11000 US. That's out of my price range, and I am not sure I like the cushion case on this, (looked again and I definitely don't like the case) but as a generalisation it's the sort of thing that would appeal to me rather more than the more pedestrian Rolex. There's surely a load of alternatives when you get into Rolex money. This isn't intending to be enabling, just hopefully thought provoking.

It was this this watch, as it happens
Omega Speedmaster Mark II Two-Tone Sedna Mens Watch O32720435001001 | Mappin and Webb
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