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The 2022 Watch Purchasing Abstinence Club (WPAC).

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Hornet99
The 2022 Watch Purchasing Abstinence Club (WPAC).

Welcome to the 2022 Watch Purchasing Abstinence Club, otherwise known as WPAC. This is the 6th year of WPAC, which was started at the beginning of 2017 to try and get myself and some other addicts out of a crazy buying/flipping cycle with watches, we were buying for the sake of it rather than for the appreciation of the watch itself, constantly chasing the next, new shiny watch or searching endlessly, fixated on some watch; generally, IMHO, a rather unhealthy behaviour.

So, what is the point of WPAC? Well, the aim is to abstain from purchasing watches. But that's a bit blunt really, the abstinence is a tool or a method to break the cycle of buying/flipping and become a discerning consumer of horology. Learning to appreciate what you have, understand what works for you with watches and think rationally about purchases, rather than emotionally. Or the ethos of less is more, as some have suggested the philosophy is here. Yes we still love watches, but as we all know we can be weak, so WPAC is a place to get help; here you can take solace from like minded people and get support and encouragement to stop impulse buying.

With those that stick around and make some commitment WPAC has been successful; for me it's certainly helped me break the buy/flip cycle and stop obsessing, so maybe it can help you.

In previous years we've had some rules, but this year there aren't going to be, there seems little point when we all have subtly (sometimes massively) different goals. If you are in serious horological trouble with buying then look back at the OP in previous WPAC threads, the rules should be a useful starting point if you want to get things under control or just shout out here to get some advice, it's what we're good at. Think of it like a clubhouse or a WUS subforum dedicated to being friendly, chatting about everything and anything and where you can find like minded watch fans.

Having said that, there is one rule I'd like everyone to adhere to; first post should be an intro with a SOTC picture (include everything, don't cheat) and some goals/aims for 2022. Whether you want to abstain completely, want to save for a special watch, just need to take control, slow things down or whatever, we'll be happy to have everyone. Just as long as you're clear on what your aims are.

Please participate in the thread, it's what makes it what it is. Any reasonable topic of conversation is acceptable and in fact welcomed.

Bashing of any potential purchases should still be a mandatory element, but let's keep it funny. Nuclear level bashing is required for any actual purchases.
Expect to be challenged by others if you're suggesting a purchase, whatever your personal goals/aims and expect to need to defend yourself.

.....and one last thing, we do occasionally get some trolls visiting, let's agree to not feed them.

Edit - clarification on enabling: this is a difficult one to deal with as WPAC has evolved such that we discuss watches, post pictures, etc., previously we tried not doing that but it didn't really work and as well despite the temptation provided by this individuals need to develop the control to not be tempted every 5 minutes by something. However, this year we seem to have a mixture of regulars and new participants, and some the latter are wanting to abstain. Hence please don't directly enable by suggesting watches......
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Someone above expressed happiness that the SOTC's were over. Nazzo fast! I'm indolent and dilatory, but I'm here.

I also saw someone link their 2021 SOTC with additions. I'm going to do that, too. 2021 SOTC - no eliminations.

2021 additions:
  • NTH Thresher in June. I'm wearing it right now. It somehow seems like it's similar to the MDV-106, but I like it much more. Better hands and indices, so better legibility. Better bezel functionality.
  • Luminox 3050/3950 - I'm on a slow motion quest for a yellow dial I really like. This one is fine, but not The One. I do like tritium and 60-click bezels. I wear it occasionally, though I no longer have a formal rotation.

Re: joy in wearing watches discussed above - for me, they're attractive tools. I query them for the time. I use the bezels. I like variety in what I look at on my wrist. I like them to be visually appealing to me. That's how I get joy from them. I like to look at watches on line, even ones I know I'd never wear, because I enjoy them visually. It's a casual thing.

Edit: @jmariorebelo said it better, but I hadn't gotten to his post yet when I posted this.

Watch Analog watch Clock Watch accessory Everyday carry
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Wimads
Brewddha said:
A little food for thought on the whole Rolex Explorer grail discussion related to watch purchasing abstinence: if there truly is a watch that you believe strongly will tamp down the buying mania, which I think is what the WPAC is all about, gaining control, then it can be a great move to pick up that grail watch, and shed whatever stops getting wrist time as a result.
(...)
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You are right to some extent, but there is a major caveat with that:

The addicted mind will make up any excuse and justification to buy another watch. If you have decided it needs to be the last watch, your mind will try to come up with every possible justification of why it is indeed exit watch material.

Only after you bought it, and the dopamine wanes down after the honeymoon, you may realize what a load of bullcrap the majority of those justifications were.

It is often surprisingly difficult to distinguish sense from nonsense, when it comes to the reasoning of your own mind.

Giving it time before deciding anything - couple of months at least, from the moment you'd normally have pulled the trigger - is the best way to filter out the bullcrap.
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BHWookie11 said:
... there are so many SOTC posts in WUS with 50+ ‘Affordable’ watches, and I begin to calculate what that might be worth if they sold it all.
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I resemble that remark! I don't think I have 50+, though.

For me, it's an affordable variety thing. I don't aspire to a 3-watch collection. I know I'd want more variety. I will grant that I have some near duplicates that could bo away, though. I think I could appreciate quality, but I don't seem to be willing to spend that much on any one watch.
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Hornet99
bth1234 said:
To be honest, I don't think I would buy a Rolex even at list. Lets say it costs £6000 UK. Even if you see them advertised on chrono 24 for 12K, they aren't all forced to sell at that price. If you need to sell it to the GM dealer you are probably not going to get even half way there, so 8-9K would be a good selling price. To me, 6K is a lot to pay for a watch, and I am not sure I can tell where the extra 5K went. At 6K, I definitely want a display case back.

If you want to invest 6K, put it on the stock market, and you are as likely to see it grow as much as the watch, with considerably more liquidity and safety.

For the same reasons I certainly wouldn't dive in at 12K where there is even less upside, and considerably more downside. If you see the bandwagon, you are already too late.

I don't think actually the discussion is enabling. @AMM1959 signalled the possible AD call, and clearly is thinking carefully about the points that have been raised. Maybe he will still buy the watch, but maybe he won't. If he does, I certainly wish him good health to wear it.
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My point is that if its a trend that if someone is considering buying a Rolex that it almost gets a free pass, if it was an Orient or something else it'd take a bashing. I think that Rolex (and Tudor) et al all deserve more criticism for the outrageous pricing and customer treatment......

AMM1959 - none of this is directed at you BTW, you'd rightly signalled this potentially issue and have a dilemma to deal with.
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Hornet99
mconlonx said:
It's funny...

Conjecture about Rolex is just so much armchair speculation on my end.

I can't afford one, even at MSRP. I don't particularly want one. So I wouldn't be on an AD list for one.

And even if I could afford one, I'd probably be looking at other watches - I don't particularly care for Submariners, would opt for a GO SeaQ instead; forget OP/DJ/E1, a Cartier Santos Medium would get the nod if I had $6k burning a hole in my pocket. I.e. watches I could get right now, rather than waiting more than a year for when/if I get The Call.

---------------------------

WPAC conundrum: You bought into a pre-order to the tune of two watches, $50/ea, at pre-order pricing, full price to be invoiced at fulfillment, when watches are in stock and ready to ship. Do you:

a) Ignore the invoice, forfeit your $100 deposit, "$100 is small price to pay to maintain my WPAC dignity!" and not have to deal with headache of flipping.
b) Pay out on the invoice, know that you will be tempted to keep at least one, but if you follow through with sale of both, you stand to make money selling at current retail vs. preorder pricing?

Although previous sale of this brand and model have indicated that it should be no problem flipping for full retail between preorder release and follow-up general release, there is always a greater than zero chance you may lose money on the deal, potentially even more than the deposit value.

What say WPAC?
Click to expand...
Go back in time and tell yourself to stop doing pre-orders?
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Hornet99
bth1234 said:
As it happens, alongside the WUS window in my screen, there was an advert for Mappin and Webb, part of Watches of Switzerland for a speedy at 15% off, but still £8190, so about $11000 US. That's out of my price range, and I am not sure I like the cushion case on this, (looked again and I definitely don't like the case) but as a generalisation it's the sort of thing that would appeal to me rather more than the more pedestrian Rolex. There's surely a load of alternatives when you get into Rolex money. This isn't intending to be enabling, just hopefully thought provoking.

It was this this watch, as it happens
Omega Speedmaster Mark II Two-Tone Sedna Mens Watch O32720435001001 | Mappin and Webb
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I tried one of these on once and whilst I'd loved the look wearing it was awful. It was just so big and chunky on the wrist. Reminds me of the old WPAC saying of "try before you buy".
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I say that this is a hole that only you could have dug (maybe @usclassic) and therefore no-one is better placed to offer advice on how to extricate yourself from it.

mconlonx said:
WPAC conundrum: You bought into a pre-order to the tune of two watches, $50/ea, at pre-order pricing, full price to be invoiced at fulfillment, when watches are in stock and ready to ship. Do you:

a) Ignore the invoice, forfeit your $100 deposit, "$100 is small price to pay to maintain my WPAC dignity!" and not have to deal with headache of flipping.
b) Pay out on the invoice, know that you will be tempted to keep at least one, but if you follow through with sale of both, you stand to make money selling at current retail vs. preorder pricing?

Although previous sale of this brand and model have indicated that it should be no problem flipping for full retail between preorder release and follow-up general release, there is always a greater than zero chance you may lose money on the deal, potentially even more than the deposit value.

What say WPAC?
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Weetabix said:
I resemble that remark! I don't think I have 50+, though.

For me, it's an affordable variety thing. I don't aspire to a 3-watch collection. I know I'd want more variety. I will grant that I have some near duplicates that could bo away, though. I think I could appreciate quality, but I don't seem to be willing to spend that much on any one watch.
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Have you reached a contented place by collecting all the watches? It seems as though there's no churn through being dissatisfied with what you bought, more a case of reducing the number of purchases having acquired so many as allow you to not to get bored of what you already have.

It's interesting that we all came here to stop (stop what? impulsive, ill-thought through purchases I guess) but we all stop in completely different places.
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mconlonx
Wimads said:
Giving it time before deciding anything - couple of months at least, from the moment you'd normally have pulled the trigger - is the best way to filter out the bullcrap.
Click to expand...
Hornet99 said:
Go back in time and tell yourself to stop doing pre-orders?
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Kind of the same issue - pre-order = getting on The List at the AD, to wait for The Call.

You get the call/email invoice for the watch, what do you do? You literally can't sit on the decision for a month or three because you've had a few to 18 months to consider the deal, and now's the time to put up or shut up. They won't hold the watch as long as we might want to purposely consider the purchase, will move on to the next paying customer, already lined up for one, cash in hand.

Adds to the instant FOMO, doesn't it...? I've seen people get carried away at auctions, under the same kind of restraint: someone else might get this thing I want! So they bid beyond what they might have set as their max.

On my end, fact of the matter is, pre-order was done before I had an inkling a BB36 was at all in the cards. Plan was always to get two, different colors, choose one, and sell the other. Now, I'm left facing the fact that any time I'd wear either of them (36mm, no-date, three hand, sport watch), probably I'd lean toward the BB36, instead.
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mconlonx
Hornet99 said:
My point is that if its a trend that if someone is considering buying a Rolex that it almost gets a free pass, if it was an Orient or something else it'd take a bashing. I think that Rolex (and Tudor) et al all deserve more criticism for the outrageous pricing and customer treatment...
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With Rolex, I think it's all about the financial gain to be realized with resale of a watch purchased at MSRP. If someone strolled in here looking for a bash on a Rolex at true market pricing, they'd get an earful.

Tudor pricing and outrageous treatment... Maybe with some models, some of the time? I had a choice of ADs where I could have picked up a BB36 in blue, and the mrs-ish actually went grey market for about a 15% discount off retail. One AD we shopped had BB58s for sale at MSRP, although the new Pelagos MN was display-only, taking orders. Pricing...? I dunno. I've said before that I can appreciate the pricing for the BB58, and even MSRP on Rolex watches. We splashed out on a BB36. Knowing full well that I could have got 90% of the quality for 10-20% of the price, and the same functionality out of a $45 Lorus/Alba... or a $10 Casio.

Hornet99 said:
I tried one of these on once and whilst I'd loved the look wearing it was awful. It was just so big and chunky on the wrist. Reminds me of the old WPAC saying of "try before you buy".
Click to expand...
Oddly, I was surprised how well a regular Speedmaster fit me, but was still repelled by the fact that it was a chronograph...
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jcombs1
mconlonx said:
It's funny...

Conjecture about Rolex is just so much armchair speculation on my end.

I can't afford one, even at MSRP. I don't particularly want one. So I wouldn't be on an AD list for one.

And even if I could afford one, I'd probably be looking at other watches - I don't particularly care for Submariners, would opt for a GO SeaQ instead; forget OP/DJ/E1, a Cartier Santos Medium would get the nod if I had $6k burning a hole in my pocket. I.e. watches I could get right now, rather than waiting more than a year for when/if I get The Call.

---------------------------

WPAC conundrum: You bought into a pre-order to the tune of two watches, $50/ea, at pre-order pricing, full price to be invoiced at fulfillment, when watches are in stock and ready to ship. Do you:

a) Ignore the invoice, forfeit your $100 deposit, "$100 is small price to pay to maintain my WPAC dignity!" and not have to deal with headache of flipping.
b) Pay out on the invoice, know that you will be tempted to keep at least one, but if you follow through with sale of both, you stand to make money selling at current retail vs. preorder pricing?

Although previous sale of this brand and model have indicated that it should be no problem flipping for full retail between preorder release and follow-up general release, there is always a greater than zero chance you may lose money on the deal, potentially even more than the deposit value.

What say WPAC?
Click to expand...
I’m a flipper at heart so grain of salt, whatever. If I knew for certain that I could turn a profit then I would move forward with the preorder and flip them both. If I was uncertain, I would consider either canceling or eating the deposit. At some point this just becomes math, especially if you’re not likely to keep either one long term.
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jcombs1
I do think luxury pieces deserve a pass (most of the time, anyway) as they are likely to put an end to the constant flipping cycle that comes with sub $1,000 watches. Notice that I said likely.

This doesn’t work for everyone, Hornet is a recent example, but for those that consider $5,000 and up real money that comes from hard work and not a trust fund these kinds of purchases typically come at the end of our watch journey.

A Speedmaster, a SeaQ and a G Shock would likely be an end game collection for me.
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JJ312
Ugh, the endless Rolex talk has even infiltrated WPAC - truly there is no escaping it!!
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Hornet99
jcombs1 said:
I do think luxury pieces deserve a pass (most of the time, anyway) as they are likely to put an end to the constant flipping cycle that comes with sub $1,000 watches. Notice that I said likely.

This doesn’t work for everyone, Hornet is a recent example, but for those that consider $5,000 and up real money that comes from hard work and not a trust fund these kinds of purchases typically come at the end of our watch journey.

A Speedmaster, a SeaQ and a G Shock would likely be an end game collection for me.
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No watch should get a free pass, even an expensive one. And if it is the "grail/exit" type of watch surely it deserves an even harder ride to ensure it really is all that?
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AMM1959
jcombs1 said:
these kinds of purchases typically come at the end of our watch journey.
Click to expand...
That is certainly where I think I am. Time will tell I suppose. I'm glad that I never had addictive tendancies-but I can certainly be impulsive on occasion and later regret a decision.

This annual thread is brimming with potential to help break addictive and impulsive buying cycles. I'm thankful that doesn't feel like it is happening for me in this case, it really has been a long term goal. On the other hand (no malice intended) this does feel a bit like having an AA meeting in a bar, but of course where else could it happen? Nowhere.

Irrespective of where I land on the E36 call today, I do appreciate all of the thoughtful and thought provoking discussion.

Cheers
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Lee_K
Hornet99 said:
I just wanted to comment that it feels like there's a general trend within WPAC, which I disagree with, of high end luxury watches getting an easier ride here. They are still watches whatever the price or name on the dial.
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The reason I usually encourage a fellow WPACer to make the purchase is because our history shows that such watches are rarely flipped. Other than you, Rusty, myself, and maybe JC (he had a business opportunity to fund, so he let his Grand Seiko go), I can't think of others in the past five years who have bought a relatively expensive luxury watch and flipped it when they got bored. Remember that guy who joined at the beginning of last year and desperately wanted a Submariner? His wife got it for him as a surprise gift and he disappeared forever. He really is happy now. We know that making such a purchase is never done lightly or impulsively, and the chances of flipping it are relatively small.

Buy a Casio Duro, AliX, or endless varieties of G-Shocks like one of our more notorious members has recently done? Sure -- they are so inexpensive that are just round-off error in our monthly budgets. It's way too easy to buy them, flip them, and then buy some more. Not so when you want to get something from the higher tier, in my experience.

I can't think of any Rolex that has been flipped by a WPAC member, but of course I could have a faulty memory. At that exalted level of price and refinement and prestige, the owners of such watches have been pretty darn content. Hence the reason why I think it can be a very valid way to bring our worse impulses back into control. It's happened to me, and I suspect if AMM gets that Explorer, it's going to settle him down as well.
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Wimads
mconlonx said:
Kind of the same issue - pre-order = getting on The List at the AD, to wait for The Call.

You get the call/email invoice for the watch, what do you do? You literally can't sit on the decision for a month or three because you've had a few to 18 months to consider the deal, and now's the time to put up or shut up. They won't hold the watch as long as we might want to purposely consider the purchase, will move on to the next paying customer, already lined up for one, cash in hand.

Adds to the instant FOMO, doesn't it...? I've seen people get carried away at auctions, under the same kind of restraint: someone else might get this thing I want! So they bid beyond what they might have set as their max.

On my end, fact of the matter is, pre-order was done before I had an inkling a BB36 was at all in the cards. Plan was always to get two, different colors, choose one, and sell the other. Now, I'm left facing the fact that any time I'd wear either of them (36mm, no-date, three hand, sport watch), probably I'd lean toward the BB36, instead.
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Thats nonsense. With preorders you can still wait for the inevitable catch and release listings on the secondary market. There may be a few instances where the secondary price is higher, but the majority will take a hit, so you save a few bucks as well (in case you still want it after all those months waiting).

Your current situation would have been avoided, if you had just waited for some other FOMO junkie to catch and release their pre-order.
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Hornet99
Lee_K said:
The reason I usually encourage a fellow WPACer to make the purchase is because our history shows that such watches are rarely flipped. Other than you, Rusty, myself, and maybe JC (he had a business opportunity to fund, so he let his Grand Seiko go), I can't think of others in the past five years who have bought a relatively expensive luxury watch and flipped it when they got bored. Remember that guy who joined at the beginning of last year and desperately wanted a Submariner? His wife got it for him as a surprise gift and he disappeared forever. He really is happy now. We know that making such a purchase is never done lightly or impulsively, and the chances of flipping it are relatively small.

Buy a Casio Duro, AliX, or endless varieties of G-Shocks like one of our more notorious members has recently done? Sure -- they are so inexpensive that are just round-off error in our monthly budgets. It's way too easy to buy them, flip them, and then buy some more. Not so when you want to get something from the higher tier, in my experience.

I can't think of any Rolex that has been flipped by a WPAC member, but of course I could have a faulty memory. At that exalted level of price and refinement and prestige, the owners of such watches have been pretty darn content. Hence the reason why I think it can be a very valid way to bring our worse impulses back into control. It's happened to me, and I suspect if AMM gets that Explorer, it's going to settle him down as well.
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I'd still suggest that such a watch would need to be challenged, if just to make sure it is going to be all that. If it really is a long held desire then the decision to purchase should easily stand up to some scrutiny shouldn't it?
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jcombs1
Wimads said:
Thats nonsense. With preorders you can still wait for the inevitable catch and release listings on the secondary market. There may be a few instances where the secondary price is higher, but the majority will take a hit, so you save a few bucks as well (in case you still want it after all those months waiting).

Your current situation would have been avoided, if you had just waited for some other FOMO junkie to catch and release their pre-order.
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I’ve only preordered one watch, a Zelos diver, and it will be my last. There is a FOMO component to these preorders and I think you’re right that with discipline they can be avoided. It can be tough though.
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Aaah said:
Have you reached a contented place by collecting all the watches? It seems as though there's no churn through being dissatisfied with what you bought, more a case of reducing the number of purchases having acquired so many as allow you to not to get bored of what you already have.

It's interesting that we all came here to stop (stop what? impulsive, ill-thought through purchases I guess) but we all stop in completely different places.
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I think I'm pretty contented, except that I really should sell or give away the ones that didn't stand the test of time. I bought affordables to test my preferences, so I appreciate the contributions of even the ones that no longer appeal - they helped me realize what I like. But they should move on. I'd have to think to decide whether I regret any of the purchases. (after a pause) I think maybe I regret the Orient Bambino Open Heart. It was a very early impulse purchase, but it did teach me that I don't care for open heart watches, so there is that.

I still have a couple I'm interested in, but I'm happy enough now, that I don't know if I'll ever get around to trying them. Last year's bashes notwithstanding, I still find the FXD and the Steinhart appealing. And my search for a happy-making yellow dial continues.

Why people come here: I agree that it's interesting. I came, I suppose, to develop my discernment about what I really want so I could avoid having too large a pile of watches I'm not actually interested in. It's also interesting sometimes to see people here projecting their own struggles on others when trying to help those others. I'm not bashing anyone with that statement. It's quite difficult to be entirely objective about anything. It's just interesting to see - the human mind is a murky place.
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