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The 2022 Watch Purchasing Abstinence Club (WPAC).

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Hornet99
The 2022 Watch Purchasing Abstinence Club (WPAC).

Welcome to the 2022 Watch Purchasing Abstinence Club, otherwise known as WPAC. This is the 6th year of WPAC, which was started at the beginning of 2017 to try and get myself and some other addicts out of a crazy buying/flipping cycle with watches, we were buying for the sake of it rather than for the appreciation of the watch itself, constantly chasing the next, new shiny watch or searching endlessly, fixated on some watch; generally, IMHO, a rather unhealthy behaviour.

So, what is the point of WPAC? Well, the aim is to abstain from purchasing watches. But that's a bit blunt really, the abstinence is a tool or a method to break the cycle of buying/flipping and become a discerning consumer of horology. Learning to appreciate what you have, understand what works for you with watches and think rationally about purchases, rather than emotionally. Or the ethos of less is more, as some have suggested the philosophy is here. Yes we still love watches, but as we all know we can be weak, so WPAC is a place to get help; here you can take solace from like minded people and get support and encouragement to stop impulse buying.

With those that stick around and make some commitment WPAC has been successful; for me it's certainly helped me break the buy/flip cycle and stop obsessing, so maybe it can help you.

In previous years we've had some rules, but this year there aren't going to be, there seems little point when we all have subtly (sometimes massively) different goals. If you are in serious horological trouble with buying then look back at the OP in previous WPAC threads, the rules should be a useful starting point if you want to get things under control or just shout out here to get some advice, it's what we're good at. Think of it like a clubhouse or a WUS subforum dedicated to being friendly, chatting about everything and anything and where you can find like minded watch fans.

Having said that, there is one rule I'd like everyone to adhere to; first post should be an intro with a SOTC picture (include everything, don't cheat) and some goals/aims for 2022. Whether you want to abstain completely, want to save for a special watch, just need to take control, slow things down or whatever, we'll be happy to have everyone. Just as long as you're clear on what your aims are.

Please participate in the thread, it's what makes it what it is. Any reasonable topic of conversation is acceptable and in fact welcomed.

Bashing of any potential purchases should still be a mandatory element, but let's keep it funny. Nuclear level bashing is required for any actual purchases.
Expect to be challenged by others if you're suggesting a purchase, whatever your personal goals/aims and expect to need to defend yourself.

.....and one last thing, we do occasionally get some trolls visiting, let's agree to not feed them.

Edit - clarification on enabling: this is a difficult one to deal with as WPAC has evolved such that we discuss watches, post pictures, etc., previously we tried not doing that but it didn't really work and as well despite the temptation provided by this individuals need to develop the control to not be tempted every 5 minutes by something. However, this year we seem to have a mixture of regulars and new participants, and some the latter are wanting to abstain. Hence please don't directly enable by suggesting watches......
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mconlonx
Wimads said:
Thats nonsense. With preorders you can still wait for the inevitable catch and release listings on the secondary market. There may be a few instances where the secondary price is higher, but the majority will take a hit, so you save a few bucks as well (in case you still want it after all those months waiting).

Your current situation would have been avoided, if you had just waited for some other FOMO junkie to catch and release their pre-order.
Click to expand...
True... But you'd be taking a chance then, eh? That's actually how I picked up a v1 model of this particular watch. Between pre-order and general release, someone sold one at regular retail pricing, at a premium over pre-order pricing, and I was happy to pay it to 1) be assured of getting one, and 2) ahead of the general release. Sold that one to fund this pre-order of the New! Improved! v2 version. Except this time, no-date.

This begs even more WPAC derision, I know, and probably will be part of why I don't need either in my life, one way or another.

I still maintain a wait list is analogous to a pre-order, just that in this case, with a Rolex, the opportunity to flip at profit is even more guaranteed.
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Hotblack Desiato
Hornet99 said:
I'd still suggest that such a watch would need to be challenged, if just to make sure it is going to be all that. If it really is a long held desire then the decision to purchase should easily stand up to some scrutiny shouldn't it?
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Agreed. There is always a need to bash any prospective watch purchase.

Having said that, I agree with Lee that there is a lower chance of flipping when the member is going upmarket. Out of all the watches I have paid >$2k, I have sold very few of them. The price itself gives me pause. Having a good bashing prior to buying gives another nice pause so we are even less likely to buy and flip.
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Hornet99
jcombs1 said:
I’ve only preordered one watch, a Zelos diver, and it will be my last. There is a FOMO component to these preorders and I think you’re right that with discipline they can be avoided. It can be tough though.
Click to expand...
Never really thought about the FOMO aspect of all this, but I can certainly see that with me and NTH.
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mconlonx
Watch Analog watch Clock Font Watch accessory


Shiny bezel on an "adventurering" watch guaranteed to scratch in no-time.
"Oystersteel" 904L, while shinier, is prone to scratching more easily than mundane 318 stainless. Shiny bezel, you say? How about scratched bezel, is that pretty, too...?
Mercedes hands. You love them or hate them. I hate them. Maybe you can tolerate them? I can't. Yuck. Single most egregious design error here.
Rolex movement = Rolex or Rolex Certified $ervice. Dare you not service your investment? "The pricey watch that keeps on being pricey!"
Shorter service interval than a Vostok. Could buy 20 Vostok movements for the cost of one service...
Symmetric dial because no date! Horse-pucky. 3 arabic indexes and... a triangle yoni? Horizontally symmetrical... oh, wait, except that crown. Vertically symmetrical? Nope.
White on black, how exciting...
Logo/text. Look printed. Wait, is that logo printed? For real? At that price...?
Oyster Perpetual / Explorer. OK, which is it? If I wanted an OP, I'd buy and OP, because frankly, they look better than this model. But no, it's an Explorer. Way to dilute the model branding, Rolex!
"Chronometer" means it has been officially certified, to we need to be told again? So redundant.
Does this watch even Automatic? How would we know...? Many other watches tell us, on the dial. The ones that don't, we assume are quartz...
At least it's got a full minute track... Oh, wait, no it doesn't. Tiny little crown under the 6. Because all the other branding isn't enough, we have to do one super-tiny to make sure you don't even see it.
Exrol exrol exrol rehaut
Only 100m WR?!? Pathetic.
Non-standard, proprietary tooling caseback.
Does the clap even glidelock?
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W
mconlonx said:
Mercedes hands. You love them or hate them. I hate them. Maybe you can tolerate them? I can't. Yuck. Single most egregious design error here.
Click to expand...
I hate them. But from what I've read, they were necessary in the early days of lume to get it to adhere properly. But it's not necessary now. The design error was keeping them. They're ugly. But they're "Rolex."
Shorter service interval than a Vostok. Could buy 20 Vostok movements for the cost of one service...
Click to expand...
Are you buying gold plated Vostok movements? I'd bet it's more than 20...
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Hotblack Desiato
mconlonx said:
View attachment 16342193

Shiny bezel on an "adventurering" watch guaranteed to scratch in no-time.
"Oystersteel" 904L, while shinier, is prone to scratching more easily than mundane 318 stainless. Shiny bezel, you say? How about scratched bezel, is that pretty, too...?
Mercedes hands. You love them or hate them. I hate them. Maybe you can tolerate them? I can't. Yuck. Single most egregious design error here.
Rolex movement = Rolex or Rolex Certified $ervice. Dare you not service your investment? "The pricey watch that keeps on being pricey!"
Shorter service interval than a Vostok. Could buy 20 Vostok movements for the cost of one service...
Symmetric dial because no date! Horse-pucky. 3 arabic indexes and... a triangle yoni? Horizontally symmetrical... oh, wait, except that crown. Vertically symmetrical? Nope.
White on black, how exciting...
Logo/text. Look printed. Wait, is that logo printed? For real? At that price...?
Oyster Perpetual / Explorer. OK, which is it? If I wanted an OP, I'd buy and OP, because frankly, they look better than this model. But no, it's an Explorer. Way to dilute the model branding, Rolex!
"Chronometer" means it has been officially certified, to we need to be told again? So redundant.
Does this watch even Automatic? How would we know...? Many other watches tell us, on the dial. The ones that don't, we assume are quartz...
At least it's got a full minute track... Oh, wait, no it doesn't. Tiny little crown under the 6. Because all the other branding isn't enough, we have to do one super-tiny to make sure you don't even see it.
Exrol exrol exrol rehaut
Only 100m WR?!? Pathetic.
Non-standard, proprietary tooling caseback.
Does the clap even glidelock?
Click to expand...
Lots of good bashing here.

Also, this model is 36mm. Many people find that too small. I have been tempted by a BB36 in the past, but I always worried about its case size. I moved near a Rolex AD recently and finally got to try one on in person. Yep, way too small for my flat 7.25" / 18cm wrists. Glad I never took a chance on it, or it would have been a return/resell 30 seconds after I opened it.
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mconlonx
Weetabix said:
Are you buying gold plated Vostok movements? I'd bet it's more than 20...
Click to expand...
Probably I'm underestimating the cost of a Rolex service, at US$500?

Hotblack Desiato said:
Also, this model is 36mm. Many people find that too small. I have been tempted by a BB36 in the past, but I always worried about its case size. I moved near a Rolex AD recently and finally got to try one on in person. Yep, way too small for my flat 7.25" / 18cm wrists. Glad I never took a chance on it, or it would have been a return/resell 30 seconds after I opened it.
Click to expand...
7" wrist and BB36 fits me perfect. At some point, back in the old days when Rolex dealers had some stock, like 2 years ago, I tried on a bunch of OP/DJ to check out sizing. 34 - too small. 39 - too large, for sure. 36 - just right. And proves out with the BB36, among other microbrands and mod builds.

Which is why I didn't bring up the size...
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badgerracer
mconlonx said:
View attachment 16342193

Shiny bezel on an "adventurering" watch guaranteed to scratch in no-time.
"Oystersteel" 904L, while shinier, is prone to scratching more easily than mundane 318 stainless. Shiny bezel, you say? How about scratched bezel, is that pretty, too...?
Click to expand...
I have had my E36 and I can confirm that the bezel is prone to scratches. I am pretty careful with my watches, and I don’t remember hitting my explorer on anything, but it does have a fairly significant scratch already.

I obviously haven’t had to service mine, but from the research I did the cost to have Rolex do it is $800-1k, so quite a few vostoks for that. A 10 year service interval helps, but I’m sure 10 years from now it will only be more expensive


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badgerracer
Last night Najee Harris scored a minute touchdown, meaning I won my fantasy football championship and have $350 headed my way. In past years I am certain I would be watch shopping with that right now. Instead I am pretty happy with my collection and there is nothing I am really looking for right now. I spent just under half of it on a new Chef’s knife (something I have been looking at for a while and this made me feel better about getting a nicer knife than I otherwise would have) and am just going to save the rest


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AMM1959
mconlonx said:
View attachment 16342193

Shiny bezel on an "adventurering" watch guaranteed to scratch in no-time.
"Oystersteel" 904L, while shinier, is prone to scratching more easily than mundane 318 stainless. Shiny bezel, you say? How about scratched bezel, is that pretty, too...?
Mercedes hands. You love them or hate them. I hate them. Maybe you can tolerate them? I can't. Yuck. Single most egregious design error here.
Rolex movement = Rolex or Rolex Certified $ervice. Dare you not service your investment? "The pricey watch that keeps on being pricey!"
Shorter service interval than a Vostok. Could buy 20 Vostok movements for the cost of one service...
Symmetric dial because no date! Horse-pucky. 3 arabic indexes and... a triangle yoni? Horizontally symmetrical... oh, wait, except that crown. Vertically symmetrical? Nope.
White on black, how exciting...
Logo/text. Look printed. Wait, is that logo printed? For real? At that price...?
Oyster Perpetual / Explorer. OK, which is it? If I wanted an OP, I'd buy and OP, because frankly, they look better than this model. But no, it's an Explorer. Way to dilute the model branding, Rolex!
"Chronometer" means it has been officially certified, to we need to be told again? So redundant.
Does this watch even Automatic? How would we know...? Many other watches tell us, on the dial. The ones that don't, we assume are quartz...
At least it's got a full minute track... Oh, wait, no it doesn't. Tiny little crown under the 6. Because all the other branding isn't enough, we have to do one super-tiny to make sure you don't even see it.
Exrol exrol exrol rehaut
Only 100m WR?!? Pathetic.
Non-standard, proprietary tooling caseback.
Does the clap even glidelock?
Click to expand...
Oh, nicely done!

All watches should be Vostoks.

All restaurants should be Taco Bell.

You forgot to mention the clear tendancy for Rolex to apparently drive owners into fits of egocentric superiority ;) It's like driving a BMW corrupting previously decent human beings, right...? LOL
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Lee_K
AMM1959 said:
All watches should be Vostoks.

All restaurants should be Taco Bell.
Click to expand...
Outerwear Sleeve Font Gesture Adaptation
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AMM1959
mconlonx said:
Which is why I didn't bring up the size...
Click to expand...
Now, now. It's not how big it is, it's...
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NeverQuiteSure
Inspired by mconionx's bash and an old Subaru commercial, I'm going to bash the 36mm Explorer I by comparing it to the first watch I put together myself:
Watch Hand Analog watch Sleeve Clock


Shiny bezel on an "adventurering" watch, guaranteed to scratch in no time? Check. Call it a tie.
"Oystersteel" 904L vs the mundane but more scratch-resistant 316L on my watch? My watch wins! :giggle:
36mm? Tie.
Mercedes hands? You love 'em, hate 'em, or (like me) tolerate 'em. Matter of personal taste.
Servicing a wonderfully innovative Rolex movement costs more than servicing or replacing an ordinary Sellita movement. My watch wins! :giggle:
Rolex recommends a 10-year service interval, Sellita is more like 5 years. Okay, Rolex blows my doors off. :cry:
Symmetry? Tie.
White on black? Almost a tie, but Rolex's white is whiter.
Logo/text? Way too much on the Rolex, none on mine. My watch wins! :giggle:
Oyster Perpetual or Explorer? For the cost of a Rolex Explorer, I can build 10 "homages" of each. :giggle:
Redundant boasting about chronometer certification? Not on my watch! :giggle:
Does the dial text tell you it's an automatic? Call it a tie. No, wait, my watch wins because it isn't automatic! :giggle:
Full minute track? Rolex fails, my watch wins! :giggle:
Exrol exrol exrol rehaut? Not on my watch! :giggle:
Only 100m WR?!? Okay, the Rolex blows the doors off my watch. :cry:
Non-standard, proprietary tooling caseback? Not on my watch! :giggle:
Does the clasp even glidelock? My watch doesn't even have a bracelet! :giggle:
Fit and finish? The Rolex blows my doors off.:cry:
But I can afford to replace them. :giggle:

In all seriousness, I can't criticize a well-considered purchase of a nearly unobtainable watch.
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A
NeverQuiteSure said:
Inspired by mconionx's bash and an old Subaru commercial, I'm going to bash the 36mm Explorer I by comparing it to the first watch I put together myself:
View attachment 16342722

Shiny bezel on an "adventurering" watch, guaranteed to scratch in no time? Check. Call it a tie.
"Oystersteel" 904L vs the mundane but more scratch-resistant 316L on my watch? My watch wins! :giggle:
36mm? Tie.
Mercedes hands? You love 'em, hate 'em, or (like me) tolerate 'em. Matter of personal taste.
Servicing a wonderfully innovative Rolex movement costs more than servicing or replacing an ordinary Sellita movement. My watch wins! :giggle:
Rolex recommends a 10-year service interval, Sellita is more like 5 years. Okay, Rolex blows my doors off. :cry:
Symmetry? Tie.
White on black? Almost a tie, but Rolex's white is whiter.
Logo/text? Way too much on the Rolex, none on mine. My watch wins! :giggle:
Oyster Perpetual or Explorer? For the cost of a Rolex Explorer, I can build 10 "homages" of each. :giggle:
Redundant boasting about chronometer certification? Not on my watch! :giggle:
Does the dial text tell you it's an automatic? Call it a tie. No, wait, my watch wins because it isn't automatic! :giggle:
Full minute track? Rolex fails, my watch wins! :giggle:
Exrol exrol exrol rehaut? Not on my watch! :giggle:
Only 100m WR?!? Okay, the Rolex blows the doors off my watch. :cry:
Non-standard, proprietary tooling caseback? Not on my watch! :giggle:
Does the clasp even glidelock? My watch doesn't even have a bracelet! :giggle:
Fit and finish? The Rolex blows my doors off.:cry:
But I can afford to replace them. :giggle:

In all seriousness, I can't criticize a well-considered purchase of a nearly unobtainable watch.
Click to expand...
I admire your jacket! What is the gold motif on the sleeve there?
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Trias
AMM1959 said:
Aaargh!!

It is January 3rd. Two days ago I joined this group, posted my SOTC and said,



And this afternoon, after 18+ months on "the waiting list" that I became convinced didn't really exist, I got a call from my local Rolex AD. They are holding a new Explorer 36 for me that came in today. 😶

Truly I am beyond conflicted. You can't make this stuff up. Cosmic test of will, anyone?

My left brain (and one of our WPAC brethren who will remain nameless) is telling me it would be silly not to simply pick it up and flip it.

My wife thinks I should just get on with it. "You'll be buying one for less that it will be worth next week? And it's a Rolex? Why is there a question? It's not like you're buying a third Seiko 5..."

And there's a whole bunch of back and forth rationalization going through my head. Pick it up and keep it. (Don't buy it and keep it! A Rolex is theft bait! LOL) Turn a quick buck...?

One in one out? That's OK, right!!? I could sell an Oris to stay at 4. But that's not exactly a fiscal wash.

Mind you, no, I would not be going into hock to buy it, and the mortgage is in fact paid off...

OK - let the bashing (and hopefully some actual usefull feedback) begin.
Click to expand...
They are so clever at Rolex. Their recipe to complicate the access so much that simply buying one of their watches unused becomes an event of its own, making you nearly forgetting the price and the wait in the process. Marketing wise, that' a feat to be admired. 👏

I agree with Lee on the principle of WPAC : the aim is to control the addiction, in other words yourself, in order for the buys you make to become more meaningful, and you not to be controlled by the dopamine of the purchase process itself. So if the Explorer was a long planned buy, duly thought-on and allowed within your own rules, IMO it'd be fine for you to purchase it.

However, if I read your SOTC post and intentions for 2022 right, that isn't what you wrote, isn't it ?
AMM1959 said:
I’ve never wanted a large collection, but I do like a rotation with some diversity (one diver, a dress watch, a versatile GADA, and something casual that is not a diver). I have had a long-held wish for either a Rolex OP, an Explorer 1, or an Omega SMP.
Click to expand...
It was the Seamaster pro OR the Explorer. Furthermore, you also wrote the Seamaster and your current collection did rejoice you a lot, and that you had met your objective and desires.
AMM1959 said:
Automotive lighting Automotive parking light Tableware Hood Automotive tire


I now have pretty much everything I ever hoped for. A diver that was on my obtainable grail list, a dress watch, a beautiful GADA, and something casual but not a diver. Two are high quality chronometers, one is from my wife, and into the bargain they all have the same 20mm lug width. My 2022 objective is to avoid temptation and be happy with what feels like an amazing rotation to me. My biggest fear is that I may get an AD call about an available Rolex – in which case I am truly not sure what I would do, because I’ve learned that 4 is the right number for me.

Cheers!
Click to expand...
If that was true, why would you let Rolex deceitful marketing schemes get to you ? Aren't you happy already ? If yes, what's the need ? The fact they manage to create an urge to buy doesn't mean you actually need it.

So, even if I agree with Lee :
Lee_K said:
Some of our WPAC brethren will disagree and opine that the only true path is to not purchase any watches but I don't personally subscribe to that. What I prefer to get out of WPAC is control: control over impulse purchases, control over what our motivations are, and control over the things that make us miserable rather than bring us joy
Click to expand...
My conclusion is that you wouldn't be making a controlled buy here. So, personally, I'd advice against it. If you are happy currently, don't waver with your initial objectives, it'll won't make you proud of yourself.

Now if, the months ahead did learn you that the SMP wasn't for you after all, you'd always be able to reconsider. After all you saw the end of a waiting list once. But only once you're 100% sure of what, when and why. ;)


Brewddha said:
A little food for thought on the whole Rolex Explorer grail discussion related to watch purchasing abstinence: if there truly is a watch that you believe strongly will tamp down the buying mania, which I think is what the WPAC is all about, gaining control, then it can be a great move to pick up that grail watch, and shed whatever stops getting wrist time as a result.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, if the addiction is a behavioral issue of the addict, it's illusory to think the cure would come from anything external to the addict himself. The problem isn't the watch, but the addict, grail or not.

Give an alcoholic a $1000 bottle, he'll still be alcoholic afterwards. 🔎
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Hornet99
Trias said:
They are so clever at Rolex. Their recipe to complicate the access so much that simply buying one of their watches unused becomes an event of its own, making you nearly forgetting the price and the wait in the process. Marketing wise, that' a feat to be admired. 👏

I agree with Lee on the principle of WPAC : the aim is to control the addiction, in other words yourself, in order for the buys you make to become more meaningful, and you not to be controlled by the dopamine of the purchase process itself. So if the Explorer was a long planned buy, duly thought-on and allowed within your own rules, IMO it'd be fine for you to purchase it.

However, if I read your SOTC post and intentions for 2022 right, that isn't what you wrote, isn't it ?

It was the Speedmaster pro OR the Explorer. Furthermore, you also wrote the Speedmaster and your current collection did rejoice you a lot, and that you had met your objective and desires.

If that was true, why would you let Rolex deceitful marketing schemes get to you ? Aren't you happy already ? If yes, what's the need ? The fact they manage to create an urge to buy doesn't mean you actually need it.

So, even if I agree with Lee :

My conclusion is that you wouldn't be making a controlled buy here. So, personally, I'd advice against it. If you are happy currently, don't waver with your initial objectives, it'll won't make you proud of yourself.

Now if, the months ahead did learn you that the SMP wasn't for you after all, you'd always be able to reconsider. After all you saw the end of a waiting list once. But only once you're 100% sure of what, when and why. ;)


In my opinion, if the addiction is a behavioral issue of the addict, it's illusory to think the cure would come from anything external to the addict himself. The problem isn't the watch, but the addict, grail or not.

Give an alcoholic a $1000 bottle, he'll still be alcoholic afterwards. 🔎
Click to expand...
Oh my, you're good........ (y)
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Wimads
Trias said:
They are so clever at Rolex. Their recipe to complicate the access so much that simply buying one of their watches unused becomes an event of its own, making you nearly forgetting the price and the wait in the process. Marketing wise, that' a feat to be admired. 👏

I agree with Lee on the principle of WPAC : the aim is to control the addiction, in other words yourself, in order for the buys you make to become more meaningful, and you not to be controlled by the dopamine of the purchase process itself. So if the Explorer was a long planned buy, duly thought-on and allowed within your own rules, IMO it'd be fine for you to purchase it.

However, if I read your SOTC post and intentions for 2022 right, that isn't what you wrote, isn't it ?

It was the Seamaster pro OR the Explorer. Furthermore, you also wrote the Seamaster and your current collection did rejoice you a lot, and that you had met your objective and desires.

If that was true, why would you let Rolex deceitful marketing schemes get to you ? Aren't you happy already ? If yes, what's the need ? The fact they manage to create an urge to buy doesn't mean you actually need it.

So, even if I agree with Lee :

My conclusion is that you wouldn't be making a controlled buy here. So, personally, I'd advice against it. If you are happy currently, don't waver with your initial objectives, it'll won't make you proud of yourself.

Now if, the months ahead did learn you that the SMP wasn't for you after all, you'd always be able to reconsider. After all you saw the end of a waiting list once. But only once you're 100% sure of what, when and why. ;)


In my opinion, if the addiction is a behavioral issue of the addict, it's illusory to think the cure would come from anything external to the addict himself. The problem isn't the watch, but the addict, grail or not.

Give an alcoholic a $1000 bottle, he'll still be alcoholic afterwards. 🔎
Click to expand...
Couldn't have worded it better. Rolex is very clever in their marketing, and its hard not to fall for it if you're in the position.
They make you wait first, so it seems like a well considered purchase when you get "the call". But really, they play on your impulses and FOMO with that call, which will make you feal like you have to pull the trigger asap, or you may miss the opportunity - basically pushing any rational considerations to the background.

Ideally, when you get "the call", you should wait a couple of months before answering it - but I'm guessing that's not an option..

The whole ploy is a massive turnoff to me to begin with, but I get how it can suck ppl in..


As a side note, maybe leave out the alcoholism metaphor... its been done to death here (by me also), I know its an easy comparison to make, but it never quite plays out well..
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TempusHertz
Wimads said:
The whole ploy is a massive turnoff to me to begin with
Click to expand...
I cannot overstate how much I agree with this sentiment. As a new WIS, I didn't know much about Rolex expect "very expensive." With what I've read in the last few weeks/months, I have zero desire to own a Rolex. If someone gave one to me, I'd flip it. They seem very comfortable with taking a "dance, monkey, dance" approach to their customers, and I'm sorry, there isn't a consumer product on earth for which I'm willing to put up with that, much less a company that is at this point resting on their laurels.

I know they'll do great without me, but my self-esteem will do better without them.
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AMM1959
Trias said:
need it.
Click to expand...
Hm. Need it.

Need it?

It's a mechanical watch, and it is jewelry. If "need it" is your litmus test then your "SOTC" should be a flip phone.
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If it's just FOMO then surely the Zelos's of this world pull the same trick with all their aventurine meteorite dials, and the limited release numbers. Skillful although less of an earner, I should think.
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