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I think one of the most interesting considerations going forward will be completely custom watches.

In fact, as advanced as CNC manufacturer is, how much longer for bespoke watches using familar movements custom-made in a under a month ?
I hope you're right. I like bespoke watches.
There are plenty of those guys around already that will make you an unique piece.

Enzo Mechana, for one.
Watch Analog watch Sky Azure Water


If you're brave and/or lucky enough to order one, that is...

But I believe some of the German independent's take custom orders. Vintage VDB for example. I know they're open to modifying their watches at least.

H2O has their Orca, where you can switch the cases and use the same "core" containing the movement, crystal and caseback for different style cases.
 
I hope you're right. I like bespoke watches.
There are plenty of those guys around already that will make you an unique piece.

Enzo Mechana, for one.
View attachment 15818780

If you're brave and/or lucky enough to order one, that is...

But I believe some of the German independent's take custom orders. Vintage VDB for example. I know they're open to modifying their watches at least.

H2O has their Orca, where you can switch the cases and use the same "core" containing the movement, crystal and caseback for different style cases.
I'd be very curious of the business model for watches made from scratch - or retro-modded - on a customer-by-customer basis.

Is there a way to do bespoke wristwatches the same way Hong Kong and Savile Row do suits? Or semi-custom cable TV hotrods?
 
I'd be very curious of the business model for watches made from scratch - or retro-modded - on a customer-by-customer basis.

Is there a way to do bespoke wristwatches the same way Hong Kong and Savile Row do suits? Or semi-custom cable TV hotrods?
Everything is possible to have made if you're willing to pay for it.
A prototype case will cost you about $4-5000 if you want it made right, from what I've heard.
You supply the overall design with the movement specified, either in cad or drawn on a napkin and the casemaker makes the necessary changes for it to work as a wristwatch and Bob's your uncle.

You'll also need someone to fit a crystal and a movement and find a good dial maker...
 
Impossible to say.

Making nice watches is only a very small part of it.

Without seeing a company's books, or having a clear understanding of its business model, no one can say which might make it and which might fail.
Agree and would add that how many of these businesses stay around once the original owner leaves, for those headed by one guy.

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Someone mentioned Moser. Is that H Moser or a different Moser? H Moser have been around since the early 1800’s and their watches are high end candy. Can they be described as a micro brand? If it’s a different Moser well fine that’s ok.
 
Bathys......
Oh wait...F**k such a great brand, such a shame 🤦‍♂️
I think many of these mentioned have the potential but alas, sh*t happens and they disappear.
 
Someone mentioned Moser. Is that H Moser or a different Moser? H Moser have been around since the early 1800's and their watches are high end candy. Can they be described as a micro brand? If it's a different Moser well fine that's ok.
H Moser & Cie was relaunched in 2005.
They make about 1500 watches per year, so by volume, yes.
But I don't see anything other than the volume that would make them a micro brand.
Independent watchmaker.
 
So, what defines a micro brand for you? Is it age? Distribution channel? Annual production? All three?

Part of the issue we're dealing with is a difference of opinion. I don't think age automatically graduates a brand. Distribution might (although it's not difficult to find a virtual storefront so you don't need to resort to direct sales). Annual production would likely give a good idea of a brand's commitment and longevity. But there's the case of tiny very limited and high end makers/boutiques that are probably not micro regardless of their lack of production.

It's somewhat in the eye of the beholder.
Great post and I agree. The definition of microbrand has changed over the years and is different for everyone. My personal definition is a one or two guy operation who has discovered they only need a design, vendors (usually Chinese) who will produce to your specs with a minimum order count needed. Usually involves either a pre-order or crowdfunding to raise the initial money needed to produce the watch. Nothing except shipping and possibly final QC is performed by the "brand" itself. Sometimes not even that, as they are drop-shipped from the vendor factory. The non-stop flow of these brands over the last 7 years or so has really brought in new interest to this hobby.
When I say "design" I am being generous as a lot of these "factories" have numerous cases, handsets, dials, etc that can be chosen from to "create" your model.
The origins of the definition I feel started when I was getting into forums and models like the Dreadnought, Orsa, BaliHa'i, Zinnex, etc were being created. I clearly remember when Christopher Ward and Deep Blue followed this model and grew enough to become actual companies.
That is my personal definition. It may not apply to modern times any longer but everyone kind of agreed on what one was back then.

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Discussion starter · #76 ·
It's been a very good thread. Thanks to all the participants. Some very interesting insights and many more brands mentioned than I would have thought!!

I have to say there was some surprising omissions. Many people mentioned Christopher Ward, but nobody Steinhart. Is it because it's not perceived as a micro any more (in this respect should be similar to Ch. Ward) or because they produce Rolex knock-offs and hence is not even considered a serious brand? Also only one person mentioned Timefactors. I had the feeling that it's all the rage (at least in Europe). Maybe the fact that it's a one man band has something to do with it.
 
It's been a very good thread. Thanks to all the participants. Some very interesting insights and many more brands mentioned than I would have thought!!

I have to say there was some surprising omissions. Many people mentioned Christopher Ward, but nobody Steinhart. Is it because it's not perceived as a micro any more (in this respect should be similar to Ch. Ward) or because they produce Rolex knock-offs and hence is not even considered a serious brand? Also only one person mentioned Timefactors. I had the feeling that it's all the rage (at least in Europe). Maybe the fact that it's a one man band has something to do with it.
I think Steinhart is something different all together. Not micro, definitely not a boutique brand.
Maybe Steinhart should be on top of the homage-makers list?
Companies like San Martin and Heimdalr aren't micros either in my book, but not really established brands either.
 
I think Steinhart is something different all together. Not micro, definitely not a boutique brand.
Maybe Steinhart should be on top of the homage-makers list?
Companies like San Martin and Heimdalr aren't micros either in my book, but not really established brands either.
You are 100% correct. Steinhart used to be a micro brand, but that ceased many years ago. Far too many employees now, along with far too many models.

San Martin and Heimdalr, definitely not micros.
 
Great post and I agree. The definition of microbrand has changed over the years and is different for everyone. My personal definition is a one or two guy operation who has discovered they only need a design, vendors (usually Chinese) who will produce to your specs with a minimum order count needed. Usually involves either a pre-order or crowdfunding to raise the initial money needed to produce the watch. Nothing except shipping and possibly final QC is performed by the "brand" itself. Sometimes not even that, as they are drop-shipped from the vendor factory. The non-stop flow of these brands over the last 7 years or so has really brought in new interest to this hobby.
When I say "design" I am being generous as a lot of these "factories" have numerous cases, handsets, dials, etc that can be chosen from to "create" your model.
The origins of the definition I feel started when I was getting into forums and models like the Dreadnought, Orsa, BaliHa'i, Zinnex, etc were being created. I clearly remember when Christopher Ward and Deep Blue followed this model and grew enough to become actual companies.
That is my personal definition. It may not apply to modern times any longer but everyone kind of agreed on what one was back then.

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There are legal definitions of what constitutes a micro business vs small, medium, and large. These do vary a bit by country (US definitions are different than EU, especially for small/medium businesses).

In general, micros are businesses with fewer than 10 employees.

In the EU, a microbusiness must meet 2 of the following:
-less than 10 employees
-less than 2 million Euros in annual turnover/sales
-balance sheet under 2 million Euros
 
There are legal definitions of what constitutes a micro business vs small, medium, and large. These do vary a bit by country (US definitions are different than EU, especially for small/medium businesses).

In general, micros are businesses with fewer than 10 employees.

In the EU, a microbusiness must meet 2 of the following:
-less than 10 employees
-less than 2 million Euros in annual turnover/sales
-balance sheet under 2 million Euros
I've never heard of the term microbusiness before.
Where did you get those numbers for EU?
There are different company legislation in all of the EU member countries. So those numbers may apply to some EU country, but not all.
 
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