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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
First apologies for confusion over on WRUW thread. I have so many pictures of Index Mobile prior to buying this one - I 'screwed' up - Sorry

This watch came from the estate of George Dubey - It was owned by the person he left it too - The (at that time) present owner of Dubey and Schaldenbrand. She and George Dubey were lifelong friends.

It is a 1946/50 Champagne Face - Index Mobile made by George Dubey

The movement is a Landeron, with screw balance wheel
Split-Second Chronographs of the 1940s and 1950s
Before one examines the Index Mobile chronographs produced by Dubey & Schaldenbrand, it is worthwhile to describe -- briefly -- the operation of split-second chronographs and the state of the art, as it stood in the 1940's, before the development of the Index Mobile.
A split-second chronograph employs two chronograph second hands, which run together for a while, with the upper hand appearing to be superimposed on the lower hand. When the user wants to check an interval time, he presses a button, and that's when the magic happens -- one of the second hands stops (to mark the interval time) and the other hand continues to run. After a reading or interval measurement has been made, the user presses the button again, and the hand that had been stopped catches up with the hand that has been running continuously, and once again, they appear to be running together, as a single hand. [This "catching up" is where we get the term, "Rattrapante", from the French word, "rattrape", meaning "to catch up.] Such split-second chronographs are also called "double chronographs", or "Fly-Back Hand"
Split-second chronographs are very complicated, with a separate castle wheel and numerous other parts being required for the amazing task of stopping one second hand (while another continues) and then having the stopped second hand catch up and continue on, with the primary second hand. In addition to the additional castle wheel and additional second hand, the movement of a traditional split-second chronograph will include a split-second brake (which looks like pincers), a split-second wheel, a heart-shaped reset piece, and various additional springs and cams.
The Index Mobile -- 'The' Rattrapante
Seeing the usefulness of split second chronographs, but the issues associated with existing designs, George Dubey set out to develop a split-second chronograph that would be simpler in design and less expensive in production. Beginning with a standard Landeron or Venus movement, George Dubey created a split-second chronograph by adding an additional chronograph second hand, and connecting the two second hands with a hairspring, with the hairspring fully visible between the dial and the crystal. When the chronograph is started, both the second hands move together. The user stops the split-second (or index) hand by pushing the button in the center of the crown, which applies a brake to the wheel turning the hand. When this button is released, this second hand (which had been stopped) "catches up" with the other second hand, which has continued running throughout the period being timed.
The Index Mobile was thought of as a simple, elegant solution, to a complex horological problem -- it allowed an inexpensive Landeron or Venus movement to be modified for split-second timing. The "Index Mobile" system was a clever approach for the production of a split second chronograph. By adding a few parts, common movements were able to deliver economical, reliable split-second timing.
Acknowledgements: Mme Cinette Robert, Jeff Stein

Pictures - taken to day:


The Movement - Notice NO shock protection:







Here you can see the 'RATTRAPANTE' - Splits Second Hand.


Acknowledgements
Jeff Stein
Mme Cinette Robert

APOLOGIES to ALL

Adam
 
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I am amazed this 1950 watch has a transparent caseback. It has to be one of the first

It is a great looking piece. And the explanation is very useful... I learned what RATTRAPANTE means :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I also asked about the transparent back.
Mme Robert insisted that is how it came from George Dubey.
Remember he made it, so not so difficult for him for his own collection to put a 'Acrylic bezel' front and back.

You can see my movement has NO shock protection and less jewels

I think Mme Robert had 2 or 3 such pieces.
she sold me one as a friend

Thanks
adam
 

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Excellent post Adam, thank you for showing us your very interesting watch.

I'll bet watchmakers gulp when they see a hairspring fitted to the split chrono secs hand.

I'm glad the confusion is cleared up, it wasn't the fact that the other watch had a display back that
caused my confusion, it was fitted with flat sapphire crystals whereas a watch of this age would have
Acrylics which your watch surely has.
 

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Discussion Starter #8

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Excellent post Adam, thank you for showing us your very interesting watch.

I'll bet watchmakers gulp when they see a hairspring fitted to the split chrono secs hand.

I'm glad the confusion is cleared up, it wasn't the fact that the other watch had a display back that
caused my confusion, it was fitted with flat sapphire crystals whereas a watch of this age would have
Acrylics which your watch surely has.
Thanks, really I apologize once again. Good point on Acrylic crystal.

Everyone, but everyone are 'gob-smacked when they see the hands split -->then catch up!
A
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Gorgeous watch. I don't recognize that import code; who did their importing into the U.S.?
No, I have looked and not found it. I must ask Mme Robert.

Will ask and let you know
 

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Discussion Starter #12

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I once read that the "Index Mobile" is not a true ratrappante in the sense that it uses a different technology. This is more primitive and therefore slightly more sensitive to abuse. On a normal ratrappante, the split seconds hand can be "clamped" for as long as you like (making it possible for A Lange & Söhne to bring out the "Double Split" with ratrappante minute hand) whereas here, the split seconds hand is only attached to the permanent chrono seconds hand by a coiled spring. This means that if you keep it "clamped" for more than a minute or so, the spring tightens too much and the whole mechanism crunches.

Oh well, it makes it more affordable and is better than just an ordinary chrono. Quite an ingenious simplification, really.....

Hartmut Richter
 

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I am confused. The first pic is from the post in the WRUW thread and was stated to be "THIS watch came from the estate of George Dubey". As Hartmut says in the WRUW thread, it is a derivative of the Poljot 3133.

The second pic is from this thread and was stated to be "
This watch came from the estate of George Dubey".

Clearly they are not the same movement.

Index-Mobile037_zpsa99bdd9b.jpg

DampSIndexMobilemine003_zps1c161685.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Look
This thread I JUST took the pictures of the watch
I got NO idea what can confuse now?
Forget the OTHER thread use these pictures.

If you think this watch is NOT genuine from 50s - Fine
You are entitled your opinion.

This watch was NOT purchased from Ebay, nor a unscrupulous seller

It came from the CEO of Dubey and Schandelbrand .

50 Yrs in the industry, a direct descendant of Antoine- LeCoultre.
She does NOT lie

adam
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I once read that the "Index Mobile" is not a true ratrappante in the sense that it uses a different technology.

Hartmut Richter
Read and believe as you wish
This watch is a TRUE 'rattrapante' by ANY definition

Please do not insult George Dubey by implying it is not.

A
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
You're rather sensitive to even oblique criticism, aren't you?
No. I am ready always to be challenged (call it criticism) as I responded in WRUW thread with this post
And other threads

Its NOT the challenge that bothers me (on this forum) it is how people attack you, rather than ask.
I am hear not to just post, but to learn - and I learned a lot

But politeness in criticism is failing here at times - in my opinion
 

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Look
This thread I JUST took the pictures of the watch
I got NO idea what can confuse now?
Forget the OTHER thread use these pictures.

If you think this watch is NOT genuine from 50s - Fine
You are entitled your opinion.

This watch was NOT purchased from Ebay, nor a unscrupulous seller

It came from the CEO of Dubey and Schandelbrand .

50 Yrs in the industry, a direct descendant of Antoine- LeCoultre.
She does NOT lie

adam
Adam,

I am making NO criticism. I am making NO personal remarks. I am just trying to understand and clear up MY confusion.

I would hope you all understand that. Watch forums can be a good way of getting to the truth through peer review and inspection. I hope that is what we are doing there. Part of that requires understanding and I am confused. Being confused bothers me. It often happens but it still bothers me :)

... I haven't yet reached that age in life where I am confused and it does not bother me LOL
 
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