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I want to jump in here. I own Bathys Hawaii and we've used both ETA movements and Sellita movements extensively. Hundreds of each. They are basically equal in every way. I would say the anti-shock on the ETA is better and the Sellita tend to have a better rate.
This is literally a Ford vs Chevy thing.
Or Coke vs Pepsi.
Amsoil vs Mobil.
Bridgestone vs. Michelin.
Apple vs Windows.
Army vs Navy vs Air Force vs Marines
Bears vs Packers
Collingwood vs Carlton
quartz vs mechanical
Ferrari vs Lamborghini
and I could go on and on...


However now ETA has restricted access to movements - and even spare parts have become very hard to get for ETA pieces. Watchmakers are freaking out.
ETA, as part of the Swatch Group is unquestionably moving the "Swiss Made" automatic movement WAAY upscale as they start to see less men wearing watches in the future. When I go to Baselworld I can walk right into the booth of Selitta and make an appointment and meet with the President Mssr. Garcia and he is affable and helpful. Even getting an appointment with ETA at the Basel Fair when you're a small-time player like Bathys Hawaii is not possible. My Swiss partners can and do have meetings; but no one will take time to speak to me personally. That's fine. I eat a few chocolates, ogle their hired model/hostesses and I'm out.
I look back at Ariel's initial post and he was spot on.
Making automatic movements that WORK is hard stuff. I give props to both ETA and Sellita as they both do great work. The ETA 2892-2 we used in the Benthic Pro Diver is sweet - no doubt! This is simply a business decision by Swatch Group - nothing more.
As we wean off of the ETA teat, please have some kindness for Sellita - I know them personally and they have the 'average watch lover's' interest at heart. I support them fully and I hope the WUS community will too. I'm not trying to make it a good guy/bad guy thing - I think most Swatch brands will move more upscale (except Hamilton) - and Sellita will step in and largely take up production for the non-Swatch group brands. Just different strokes for different blokes.

(I note that back in 2010 when this thread began the word here was that is was <<seulement ebauche>>, but it was around that time that those of us in the industry heard it was going to be movements as well - which is what it has become now. C'est la vie.)
 

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Good info, Bathys.

what I dont understand is that when I pick up a magazine and see "new" brands (or on TZ where Jorge lists new watch brands), some of these new brands are using ETA/Valjoux movements.

Why is it that established brands are being forced out yet new brands have access? Is this because the new brands had orders for a few years back and locked in orders?

In a matter of a few years, the shakeup will sort itself out. I assume Sellita will pick up as much slack as possible but the Japanese movement brands will have many more clients at their doors.

In closing, I think many people will begin to buy watches with Japanese movements, realizing "hey, these arent so bad afterall" and because the cost of swiss made movements will continue to skyrocket and make some watches unaffordable to many.
 

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China always comes up when a tried and true, fan-worthy brand with a following like ETA has true competition whose product is every bit as good, if not better (certainly quieter) than they are. Being that Sellita supplies ETA and always has, then that means ETA is every bit as Chinese as Sellita. More fact than fiction though is, neither one is Chinese and the ETA faithful just throws China into the mix because they have nothing else in the way of facts to convince you that ETA is superior to Sellita. Again though, if one is then the other is in this case, so the China connection against Sellita doesn't hold any weight. ETA, Soprod, and Sellita all have production facilities in Switzerland... that's a fact, and the only one that has any merit to me. So, any other speculation that any of these companies produce their movements (or even a certain amount of their parts) anywhere else is just that... speculation. Nothing more.
 

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I don't think ETA cares what people think... like The Phone Company before the antitrust breakup (in the US), they are a monopoly (for Swatch companies) and they don't have to care. Their market is captive. They are a cost center, not a company.

... and therein lies the seed of their probable decline.
 
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I saw an article from last year that tested the Sellita SW200 against the ETA 2824-2. The Sellitta was more accurate in every position, easily qualifying for chronometer status. The hair spring in the SW200 is thinner.

I'm sure there are a number of watch snobs that will continue to prefer the ETA movement because of it's history an association with Omega, but the Sellita is objectively as good or better.

Clone Wars: Sellita SW200 Vs. ETA 2824 | Watch Flipr - Expert Wristwatch Blog
 

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(I can't quite come to terms with the reasoning people are using to associate Sellita with... China. Is it a complete misunderstanding of geography? Is it some sort of insecurity or trauma?)

Anyway: I'm in no position to know what happens to Chinese copies of relatively famous watches that are seized by customs in a country that has a proud history (the name escapes me). I'm also in no position to know how many of those watches aren't destroyed or sent back to China. I've no idea how many end up in the private collections of civil servants and how many of those civil servants open up the watches and examine what's inside to get a feel for the quality of the copy.

I therefore cannot know that the actual Chinese copies of Sellita SW200 exceed in quality the actual Chinese copies of the ETA 2824-2 routinely.

Could the quality of fakes correlate directly to the quality of the originals? I don't know. Anything.

For what it's worth I don't see much difference between an brand selecting an ETA or a Sellita -- or a Seiko.

In this I'm in good company; TAG see little difference also from what history has shown.
 

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Question is, how to know which movement is in the watch?

Thanks
 

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Question is, how to know which movement is in the watch?

Thanks
If it has a display back, look at the stamping under the balance wheel. The interlocking-L Sellita logo and the caliber number will appear there, or the ETA shield logo and their caliber number. I recently added a Movado Museum Watch to my collection, and that was was originally supplied with an ETA 2892. The the one I bought had an SW300, which I was able to confirm with a 10x loupe and five seconds of getting the light to shine into the movement usefully.

But the SW300 also has a differently shaped rotor and a smaller rotor bearing track, so now that I know what it looks like, it's recognizable at a glance just the same as the 2892.

Rick "who'd still like to see a real tear-down test of the SW300, to see where Sellita put those extra four jewels if nothing else" Denney
 

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I saw this article, have not seen it posted before.

For many years, Sellita operated as one of ETA’s major out-sourced assembly operations for their 2824 movements.
They would receive 2824 movement kits from ETA and assortments from Nivarox directly (now part of the Swatch Group) and simply add wheels and screws and sell the movements to many famous Swiss watch brands as ETA 2824-2 movements, which in effect they were.
When it was announced that ETA would no longer be providing unfinished movement kits, this threatened Sellita’s survival as a business. Their solution was to buy the parts from suppliers outside the Swatch Group with the exception of Nivarox who, as a result of the long-standing relationship over 50 years, they continued to use. At first, they weren’t sure if they would have IP issues if they copied the movement exactly so they re-engineered the movement, changing some minor details These changes, although minor, added up to reduced reliability in the pre-series movements and so, Sellita decided (having now learned that there were no remaining patents for the 2824) to return almost entirely to the ETA movement design.
We started to use Sellita’s SW200 ( the name for Sellita’s 2824-2) at this point and, having checked the performance of each subsequent delivery of both movements, we are able to confirm the movement performance exactly matches the ETA.
Aesthetically, the movements are identical and difficult to separate and the only significant difference is in the number of jewels. Sellita added a 26th jewel on the upper side of the barrel axis which sits just below the ratchet wheel. This jewel slightly reduces the friction associated with automatic winding. However, as the ETA movement has never had a problem of reliability in this regard, it is my view that this is most likely a marketing device used by Sellita to create some separation from the ETA movement although one could make a case for the small benefit in reliability the adjusted jewel height gives.
Overall, however, the two movements are so identical in every aspect, it is difficult to have a meaningful discussions about the differences.

Johannes Jahnke

The ETA v Sellita Story
 

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I am uncertain which movement my new Aquaracer Cal 5 300 comes with, any advice?
Depending on age, it could be either a 2824 or a SW200. Both are of similar (excellent) quality and are functionally identical. The only way to know is to look (with a loupe) at the plate under the balance wheel, where the movement maker put their mark. ETA uses a shield logo and Sellita uses a stylized S logo. The caliber numbers will be stamped there, too.

Rick "probably an SW200 if it's new" Denney
 

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Depending on age, it could be either a 2824 or a SW200. Both are of similar (excellent) quality and are functionally identical. The only way to know is to look (with a loupe) at the plate under the balance wheel, where the movement maker put their mark. ETA uses a shield logo and Sellita uses a stylized S logo. The caliber numbers will be stamped there, too.

Rick "probably an SW200 if it's new" Denney
Thanks for the info Rick, I'm not sure of the date of manufacture but the watch (shown) was purchased last month. I think this particular model was brought to market in 2011? I've been wearing it for about a fortnight and it seems to keep perfect time.
Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Wrist Fashion accessory
 

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Thanks for the info Rick, I'm not sure of the date of manufacture but the watch (shown) was purchased last month. I think this particular model was brought to market in 2011? I've been wearing it for about a fortnight and it seems to keep perfect time.
View attachment 1942154
Only way to know is to look at the movement.

Rick "could have gone either way in 2011" Denney
 

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But if, as you say, they are identical movements so its probably a mute point. Do you know if the ETA 2824 an actual 'Swiss' designed - built movement?
 

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But if, as you say, they are identical movements so its probably a mute point. Do you know if the ETA 2824 an actual 'Swiss' designed - built movement?
I'm no expert but, the ETA rotor would read 25 jewels. while the Sellita would read 26 jewels.
 

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I'm no expert but, the ETA rotor would read 25 jewels. while the Sellita would read 26 jewels.
Not always, I've seen Oris and Edox pieces for example that completely redecorate the rotor and do not leave the 26 jewel stamp. In this case, it may be more difficult since that Tag probably does not have a display back.
 
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