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Not always, I've seen Oris and Edox pieces for example that completely redecorate the rotor and do not leave the 26 jewel stamp. In this case, it may be more difficult since that Tag probably does not have a display back.

I stand corrected!
 

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But if, as you say, they are identical movements so its probably a mute point. Do you know if the ETA 2824 an actual 'Swiss' designed - built movement?
Both are Swiss designed and built. ETA is in Grenchen, and Sellita is in Crêt-du-Locle, between Le Chaux-de-Fonds and Le Locle.

Rick "who parked in Sellita's lot to photograph the Cartier manufacture" Denney
 
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But if, as you say, they are identical movements so its probably a mute point. Do you know if the ETA 2824 an actual 'Swiss' designed - built movement?
Both are Swiss designed and built. ETA is in Grenchen, and Sellita is in Crêt-du-Locle, between Le Chaux-de-Fonds and Le Locle.

Rick "who parked in Sellita's lot to photograph the Cartier manufacture" Denney
Thanks Rick "Man with the answer" Denney!
 

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We started to use Sellita’s SW200 ( the name for Sellita’s 2824-2) at this point and, having checked the performance of each subsequent delivery of both movements, we are able to confirm the movement performance exactly matches the ETA.
Aesthetically, the movements are identical and difficult to separate and the only significant difference is in the number of jewels. Sellita added a 26th jewel on the upper side of the barrel axis which sits just below the ratchet wheel. This jewel slightly reduces the friction associated with automatic winding. However, as the ETA movement has never had a problem of reliability in this regard, it is my view that this is most likely a marketing device used by Sellita to create some separation from the ETA movement although one could make a case for the small benefit in reliability the adjusted jewel height gives.
The main issue with these Sellitas is the automatic bridge and its associated parts. It can happen on refurbished or new movements.
The rotor and its ball bearings are easily stucked, the rubies are sometimes badly pressed into the automatic bridge, and after a few months of daily use, one can see dark residues all over the bridges (old stocks of D5?) . Anyway, there's clearly an automatic winding issue on these Sellitas, lots of customers say they do not get sufficient running time with their Sellita-powered watch.
 

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The main issue with these Sellitas is the automatic bridge and its associated parts. It can happen on refurbished or new movements.
The rotor and its ball bearings are easily stucked, the rubies are sometimes badly pressed into the automatic bridge, and after a few months of daily use, one can see dark residues all over the bridges (old stocks of D5?) . Anyway, there's clearly an automatic winding issue on these Sellitas, lots of customers say they do not get sufficient running time with their Sellita-powered watch.
Are these current issues?

There was talk of some issues early on in Sellita's self-branded production, with subsequent talk that these issues had all been cleared up. But talk is self-regenerating on the Internet, whether it has data to back it up or not. Many highly respected companies are using Sellita movements, and risking their reputations and warranty liabilities on them.

Rick "looking for data to back up such claims" Denney
 

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Are these current issues?

There was talk of some issues early on in Sellita's self-branded production, with subsequent talk that these issues had all been cleared up. But talk is self-regenerating on the Internet, whether it has data to back it up or not. Many highly respected companies are using Sellita movements, and risking their reputations and warranty liabilities on them.

Rick "looking for data to back up such claims" Denney
This is data coming right from the workbenches. I'm not taking these information from Internet, but from "real" people complaining about the low power reserve (a consequence of this automatic system issue). New watches BTW. I don't know if these are currently produced ones or coming from old stocks in the shops, though.

And guess what : each time, their watch contain a Sellita. It does happen with ETA, but this is mostly unsignificant in this case.
 

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This is data coming right from the workbenches. I'm not taking these information from Internet, but from "real" people complaining about the low power reserve (a consequence of this automatic system issue). New watches BTW. I don't know if these are currently produced ones or coming from old stocks in the shops, though.

And guess what : each time, their watch contain a Sellita. It does happen with ETA, but this is mostly unsignificant in this case.
i wore my Aquaracer 300m around 10 hours a day, maybe a little bit less during weekends...
as an IT guy, wrist movements are mostly during going to and off work and lunch time...
when its not worn at night, i leave it no the table crown up...

i personally observed a low power reserve initially when i bought it... that lasted for about... 6 months or so...
during that period, i wind my watch every week or 2 just to ensure there's enough power for the coming week

after that it just got better, after 6 months, i didn't wind my watch for at least 3 months now, its still going!
 

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This is data coming right from the workbenches. I'm not taking these information from Internet, but from "real" people complaining about the low power reserve (a consequence of this automatic system issue). New watches BTW. I don't know if these are currently produced ones or coming from old stocks in the shops, though.

And guess what : each time, their watch contain a Sellita. It does happen with ETA, but this is mostly unsignificant in this case.
i wore my Aquaracer 300m around 10 hours a day, maybe a little bit less during weekends...
as an IT guy, wrist movements are mostly during going to and off work and lunch time...
when its not worn at night, i leave it no the table crown up...

i personally observed a low power reserve initially when i bought it... that lasted for about... 6 months or so...
during that period, i wind my watch every week or 2 just to ensure there's enough power for the coming week

after that it just got better, after 6 months, i didn't wind my watch for at least 3 months now, its still going!
would somebody be kind enough to explain why it's necessary to stand the watch "crown up" when left off the wrist overnight?
 

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would somebody be kind enough to explain why it's necessary to stand the watch "crown up" when left off the wrist overnight?
Mechanical watches will have some slight imbalance and run faster or slower depending on positioning, right?

Hopefully, a watch is adjusted to run so that its crown-up position rate is opposite that of its crown-down rate -- say, +5 sec/day crown down, and -5/day crown up. The idea is that crown-down is more common during the day, when the wearer is standing and walking around. Then, when not being worn at night, crown-up will compensate for the drift that happened during the day.

That's my awkward explanation. ;)
 

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Okay, I've read through the entire thread today, and I want to bump it with a question surrounding all the made-in-china-talk.

Almost exactly a year ago (24 feb 2014) I purchased an IWC Portofino Chronograph (brand new) from an AD, as my first luxury/prestige watch. I wanted something different, not a Rolex/Omega/Breitling like all other 20-year olds. So I bought this Valjoux 7750 powered IWC Chronograph thinking it's a nice, exclusive watch with a good ETA/Valjoux movement that has proven itself to be a true workhorse since the early 70s. Now, almost a year later I learn about Sellitas SW500 - which is their take on the 7750 - and I find out that my IWC, along with the rest of the Portofino family at least uses Sellita movements. I mailed IWC about this and they came back to me telling me the movement inside my very watch was designed in collaboration by IWC with Sellita, and that they've named in the Grandjean (named after Pierre Grandjean, who was/is the founder of Sellita).

Where I don't believe that there's a chance in hell my watch is made in china, it's still not impossible that some parts are/were. And if that's case, what parts of the movement would that be? Am I too paranoid? As somebody said before, so far there are only claims that Sellitas might be made in china, but I really hope they're not, because it drastically sinks the value of the watch for me, at least in affection.


Edit: might also add that I am thinking of buying and Oris Aquis Date that utilizes the SW200. From what I read here, it seems it won't be a problem really, it's all about that pedigree.
 

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You're too paranoid. There's no greater likelihood that parts in a Sellita SW500 as used in an IWC has Chinese parts than an ETA in an IWC.

ETA is cutting back on supplying movements to non-Swatch companies. What do you expect traditional etablisseur companies to do? If that IWC had an in-house movement, you wouldn't have been able to afford it. Since Swatch and other companies have bought up all the independent Swiss movement manufactures except for Sellita and Soprod, there's not much alternative for companies that have always used supplied ebauches.

When I photographed the Cartier Manufacture in La Chaux-de-Fonds, I was (literally) standing in Sellita's parking lot, right next to the Crêt du Locle train station. Patek Philippe's facility was in view, as was Jacquet Droz. Breitling Chronometrie was down the street to the left, just around the corner from TAG-Heuer. Le Locle, home of Zenith, Montblanc, Renaud et Papi, Tissot, and many others was two clicks in the other direction. Those two towns are less than an hour from Grenchen, home of ETA. Sellita is as Swiss as it gets.

Rick "enjoy your watch" Denney
 

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Interesting reading guys. What are your thoughts on the parts and service in the future? I have ETA 7750 based ORIS and ETA 2892 based IWC. Let's say 10-20 years from now, do you think there will be ETA parts available to companies outside Swatch group? Or will Oris, IWC and others use Sellita parts to service their older watches?
 

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You're too paranoid. There's no greater likelihood that parts in a Sellita SW500 as used in an IWC has Chinese parts than an ETA in an IWC.

ETA is cutting back on supplying movements to non-Swatch companies. What do you expect traditional etablisseur companies to do? If that IWC had an in-house movement, you wouldn't have been able to afford it. Since Swatch and other companies have bought up all the independent Swiss movement manufactures except for Sellita and Soprod, there's not much alternative for companies that have always used supplied ebauches.

When I photographed the Cartier Manufacture in La Chaux-de-Fonds, I was (literally) standing in Sellita's parking lot, right next to the Crêt du Locle train station. Patek Philippe's facility was in view, as was Jacquet Droz. Breitling Chronometrie was down the street to the left, just around the corner from TAG-Heuer. Le Locle, home of Zenith, Montblanc, Renaud et Papi, Tissot, and many others was two clicks in the other direction. Those two towns are less than an hour from Grenchen, home of ETA. Sellita is as Swiss as it gets.

Rick "enjoy your watch" Denney
They could make their own movements like Swatch Group does. As Swatch put their own movements in 150 dollar watches I dont see an issue other than they would have lower profit rates and maybe have to spend less on their advertisng and more on their watches.
 

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You might be right about that for now, but i think that watch company's[ not swatch] will start using Sellita a lot more in the future, and they will continue to expand, I think there product will continue to improve and more people will accept them as maybe an equal ;-)
Apparently you have bought a watch with one of these Selitta movements since yoo seem to want to defend their quality. The fact is, Selitta is not a high quality watch movement maker, but rather a knock off maker. If anyone had a choice of movements, they should choose Selitta LAST. Believe what you like.
 

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Is there any proof that an ETA 2824 is superior to an SW200 in terms of reliability, accuracy or resistance to shock?

I'd be a bit surprised if the 2824 was superior and wouldn't be surprised if the opposite were true.

The Sellita is a more modern rendition of the movement, made using recent manufacturing techniques, processes and machinery, and the refinement that is possible when you can study something that has a long production history instead of starting from scratch.

What is clear to me is that Sellita and the SW200 has less marketing value, than ETA and the venerable 2824. I would be very surprised if the superior marketing value isn't one of the principle drivers for the selection of the 2824 over the SW200.

Of course, the ugly truth of watches, as with all luxury goods, is that marketing value is probably more important than any other product content.
Why dont you buy one the and tell us all about the quality and how it is better than ETA. RIGHT!
 

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Apparently you have bought a watch with one of these Selitta movements since yoo seem to want to defend their quality. My opinion is, Selitta is not a high quality watch movement maker, but rather a knock off maker. If anyone had a choice of movements, they should choose Selitta LAST. Believe what you like.
FTFY. I have yet to see any actual facts that show that Sellita is any better or worse than ETA. Someone should do a tear-down of an SW200 and an ETA 2824 with photos under a microscope, metallurgical analyses, and stress-testing. I have yet to see any such reports though. In the meantime, my SW200 only gains 5 secs/day. I'm perfectly happy with that in a mechanical. If I wanted greater accuracy I'd wear my Eco-Drive or my Timex.
 

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They could make their own movements like Swatch Group does. As Swatch put their own movements in 150 dollar watches I dont see an issue other than they would have lower profit rates and maybe have to spend less on their advertisng and more on their watches.
Do you think Swatch sprang from the earth making movements? They started with ASUAG, which was a loose consortium that included ETA and about a dozen other movement manufactures that had been consolidating since the 30's. ASUAG supplied the bulk of the Swiss industry for decades, long before they merged with SSIH to become SMH, later renamed Swatch.

For a company to make high-quality automatic movements starting with an empty building, costs would be enormous and would likely exceed marketable prices. Tissot makes a couple million watches a year; IWC a few tens of thousands. But the movements in Tissots are still not finished nearly to the same standard as are the Sellita movements in those IWC models that use them. The notion that they have the cost as those installed in $150 watches by Swatch is unevidenced.

The real damage to the traditional Swiss industry has been the loss of independent or semi-independent ebaucheries. The availability of those made it possible for a diversity of watch designs to feed a diversity of tastes.

Rick "thinking Swatch's current strategy carries out the objective to weed out small producers at middle price points" Denney
 
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Apparently you have bought a watch with one of these Selitta movements since yoo seem to want to defend their quality. The fact is, Selitta is not a high quality watch movement maker, but rather a knock off maker. If anyone had a choice of movements, they should choose Selitta LAST. Believe what you like.
Have you ever studied one?

Rick "seeing no evidence of same" Denney
 
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