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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Pleasure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Barry
Yes I thought so.
I sent it to Philip Poniz too.
A
 

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Breguet was 'The Man'!!
Imagine pulling a Breguet movement from an Ebay junkbox after some clever
person scraps the gold case...it could happen, not every Breguet is accounted for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Breguet was 'The Man'!!
Imagine pulling a Breguet movement from an Ebay junkbox after some clever
person scraps the gold case...it could happen, not every Breguet is accounted for.
I think every Breguet watch that is 100% attributed to him is accounted for. I seem to Remember Philip Poniz saying he has had in his hand every Breguet Piece.

Here is an explanation written by Philip Poniz - full acknowledgement to him

QUOTE
Until about 2000 there had been a consensus that all watches signed Breguet that do not have a serial number which could be tracked down in the Breguet archives are fakes. We have learned a lot since then. Two commercial Breguet books have been discovered proving that he dealt with ordinary watches which he owned by trading off, from debt payments, collaterals, or otherwise. We have also discovered orders from Breguet to Le Locle (Swiss Jura Mountains) ebauche makers for movements while he was in hiding in Switzerland (August 1793 – April 1795) during the terror days in Paris. He had a small workshop there where he worked with his son. We really do not know exactly what he was doing there but for sure he supplemented the income by buying and selling watches.

Therefore, today to answer if such a watch as yours went through Breguet hands or not is more difficult. In any case, it would not be a watch that he made. What he bought and sold in Switzerland we have no idea of, with a very few exceptions based on three surviving order letters.

Regarding a possibility that your watch is one of those he dealt with while in Le Locle the answer is no because the watch dates circa 1820 and also because Breguet began signing his watches "Breguet et Fils" circa 1807.

After 1795, back in Paris, Breguet established a commercial register which still exists. The only way to find if your watch is there or not would be to browse through it and to look for one of the serial numbers struck inside the back cover. I do not see anybody doing it. However, the register does contain records of "silver repeating watches" which he sold between 200 and 240 francs versus over 1000 francs if it were made by him.

In the photo of the inside of the back cover it seems that between the numbers there is a worn out mark. Can you decipher what is it? It might help to determine the region where the watch was made.

Philip Poniz

UNquote
 

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Yes, I agree that every genuine Breguet is serialised and probably recorded in the
archives somewhere.
I meant that there are Breguets of unknown whereabouts, either destroyed or yet to surface.

I don't know of Philip Poniz or his claims, but it's a far stretch to claim that he has handled every Breguet
in existance and so they are all known, one surfaced on the UK Antiques Roadshow comparatively recently...

BBC One - Antiques Roadshow - Richard Price
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yes, I agree that every genuine Breguet is serialised and probably recorded in the
archives somewhere.
I meant that there are Breguets of unknown whereabouts, either destroyed or yet to surface.

I don't know of Philip Poniz or his claims, but it's a far stretch to claim that he has handled every Breguet
in existance and so they are all known, one surfaced on the UK Antiques Roadshow comparatively recently...

BBC One - Antiques Roadshow - Richard Price
Well I am not saying he 'did' say it I said that i 'seemed' to remember, but I am not certain.

He was the man who brought the Breguet Manuscripts to Hayek (snr). He has seen, and studied Breguets actual diaries.
They are now owned privately by Swatch Group

If you want to learn a bit about his knowledge see here:
HIGH FREQUENCIES
IN DEPTH Philip Poniz, horological historian, Expert-in-Chief at WatchInvest, Inc.,
where he advises high-end watch collectors and investors,
Head Expert at Antiquorum during its glory years, Court Expert and Master
Restorer reveals for us all the little and big secrets of high frequencies in watchmaking.
P
actual article here:
http://www.veryimportantwatches.com/files/pdf/high_frequency_special0.pdf
 

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Well I am not saying he 'did' say it I said that i 'seemed' to remember, but I am not certain.

He was the man who brought the Breguet Manuscripts to Hayek (snr). He has seen, and studied Breguets actual diaries.
They are now owned privately by Swatch Group

If you want to learn a bit about his knowledge see here:
HIGH FREQUENCIES
IN DEPTH Philip Poniz, horological historian, Expert-in-Chief at WatchInvest, Inc.,
where he advises high-end watch collectors and investors,
Head Expert at Antiquorum during its glory years, Court Expert and Master
Restorer reveals for us all the little and big secrets of high frequencies in watchmaking.
P
actual article here:
http://www.veryimportantwatches.com/files/pdf/high_frequency_special0.pdf
That link is a massive long P.D.F advert for modern high frequency watches?

Have you ever had the pleasure to examine a Breguet watch Adam?
Perhaps you even own one, that would be something.

I've never even seen one in the flesh so to speak.
I'll keep looking in junk boxes on Ebay, one will turn up eventually.;-)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
That link is a massive long P.D.F advert for modern high frequency watches?

Have you ever had the pleasure to examine a Breguet watch Adam?
Perhaps you even own one, that would be something.

I've never even seen one in the flesh so to speak.
I'll keep looking in junk boxes on Ebay, one will turn up eventually.;-)
No. I do not own one. I wish. Winston Churchill wore a Breguet
BUT
I have had the honor of holding two at the NAWCC Museum

The Museum has some 40 Breguets vintage Breguet pocketbwatches.
I had the privilege of working with Philip to decide which were genuine which were fakes
Out of about 40 pcs ONLY 2 were genuine the other 38 were fake
I wrote an article. I do remember Philip saying to me - "in his whole life he never saw so many fake Breguet watches"
I will search, find and post it
Philip is the 'expert' in Horology
He stripped down Breguet timepieces with no worries, and rebuilt them
Photographing EVERY piece

I bow to his unbelievable knowledge

A
 

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No. I do not own one. I wish. Winston Churchill wore a Breguet
BUT
I have had the honor of holding two at the NAWCC Museum

The Museum has some 40 Breguets vintage Breguet pocketbwatches.
I had the privilege of working with Philip to decide which were genuine which were fakes
Out of about 40 pcs ONLY 2 were genuine the other 38 were fake
I wrote an article. I do remember Philip saying to me - "in his whole life he never saw so many fake Breguet watches"
I will search, find and post it
Philip is the 'expert' in Horology
He stripped down Breguet timepieces with no worries, and rebuilt them
Photographing EVERY piece

I bow to his unbelievable knowledge

A
That is excellent Adam.

Perhaps you could post a link to a Breguet strip down, I'd be interested in that. Look forward to reading your
article where you were helping to authenticate genuine Breguets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
That is excellent Adam.

Perhaps you could post a link to a Breguet strip down, I'd be interested in that. Look forward to reading your
article where you were helping to authenticate genuine Breguets.
Sure will do it. I have copies here.
BUT
Please understand
I never authenticated them - I gathered ALL the 'so called Breguet s in the museum -->gave my opinion to Philip-->he came/stripped down-->checked recorfds and authenticated them
HE was the genius. Me? I was the assistant
 

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One interesting sidebar to the story that was not mentioned was the fact that before the stolen watch reappeared, Breguet president Nicolas Hayek had his modern Breguet craftsmen make a reproduction of the watch, based solely on photos, at a reported cost of over $100,000. It was unveiled at Baselworld in 2008. It was ironic that the original resurfaced around the same tune as the reproduction was completed. As far as I know, they have yet to be compared side-by-side. It sure would be interesting to know how accurately today's craftsmen managed to get it without access to the original as a model. http://www.breguet.com/Marie-Antoinette-watch
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
One interesting sidebar to the story that was not mentioned was the fact that before the stolen watch reappeared, Breguet president Nicolas Hayek had his modern Breguet craftsmen make a reproduction of the watch, based solely on photos, at a reported cost of over $100,000. It was unveiled at Baselworld in 2008. It was ironic that the original resurfaced around the same tune as the reproduction was completed. As far as I know, they have yet to be compared side-by-side. It sure would be interesting to know how accurately today's craftsmen managed to get it without access to the original as a model. http://www.breguet.com/Marie-Antoinette-watch

correct and amazing coincidence
 
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