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I have decided that if i dont win the lottery, i wont chase after a Ming. I just think it’s ok at retail but too much at grey.
Kinda like the an IPO tho, price may be established at the listing (retail on a watch) but the market says what it’s worth. I think nearly all watches sold above retail is rarely worth it but based on prices, I’m very very wrong. Go figure.


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“what’s life without whimsy”
 

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Kinda like the an IPO tho, price may be established at the listing (retail on a watch) but the market says what it’s worth. I think nearly all watches sold above retail is rarely worth it but based on prices, I’m very very wrong. Go figure.


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“what’s life without whimsy”
i was actually considering getting one of the earlier releases (a blue dial or a copper dial). Then saw the massena. I liked the honey dial. Then these debacles happened. Now am thinking, if i dont get the lottery win, maybe not meant to be. And i should focus on my watch plan (which doesnt include a ming).
 

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Saw the first person report on another watch forum that they got the email that they had been picked in the lottery.....he said he was going with the honey dial.
 

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I definitely agree with you about Chrono 2 (it is overpriced) . The movements are being used in Kuronos should get an immediate update if they want to keep up. Other models like Mori and (hopefully) Toki have enough going on to deserve their price especially considering their limited numbers but not three times the msrp.

As for the Ming, I am sure Singular will release a very informative video soon about Ming 27.01 but it is very impressive. Distinctive case design, the over all finish, the dial, heavily modified beautifully displayed movement, in a flat very thin watch hits all the right tunes in my opinion.
I think this is what puts Ming above Kurono and other peers. Ming pairs technical excellence with the distinct design, while Kurono seems to be strictly design-centric. Maybe somebody can enlighten me, but is the Miyota 9S really the best option for Kurono (assuming they want to stick with the Japan Made angle)? I understand that in-house is not an option (at least for now, but the volume of the Toki should open up some new options?)
 

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The movement is a big hurdle. But I'm willing to make that compromise and say these watches go beyond the movement. But then I took a look at the dial finishing under a loupe/macro lens, and there wasn't anything exceptional there either. My Halios and Christopher Ward watches are much tidier and crisp in terms of QC. The Chronograph 1 was a big step up from the Bullseye in that department, but still not enough for me to blown away by. In exchange for Hajime's story and his great interpretation of these designs, I felt a compromise was made in terms of movement and the finer quality control details.
Nice, thanks for the pics -- so it seems that Halios just has nice QC for their sub 1K price point, vs Ming/Kurono now more at the 2K price point, so the expectations are different? In this case I'd say that
Halios still doesn't belong in the prestige group, because the design to me just reminds me of millions of steel sport watches out there. Its a value priced Chirstopher Ward (or Aqua Terra) then..
 

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As I stated in my message, I gave examples of some "micro brands" that are doing great job releasing very commendable pieces (and I definitely put Halios in that group). Ming, Halios and up to some level Kuruno deserves the hype they are getting at the moment. Halios finish, case design, dial, bracelet and overall package is way above their asking price. I can't say the same thing for some of the Kuruno Tokyo models but models like "Mori" have that "extra flair"
I also would agree that out of that three, Ming has a very recognizable distinct design language.

I own couple of Zelos too. Some of their models are not my cup of tea as well , some are great VS their price point. But I wouldn't put Zelos in the same group.

To wrap up, very unique design is not important alone to make a watch praisable , otherwise the watch below would sell more than $14 :)
I think outstanding design is first though. It may depend on the collector, but for those with a few traditional swiss brand pieces already, without the design being outstanding, I feel there not that much interest, unless the micro hits on some novel color or some feature that it really in demand. I looked at Halios and having a few divers already, have a few steel no bezel sport watches, i'm totally not inspired to get one. So my sense is that they are more a brand toward those are starting up and don't want to fork out yet for a swiss brand, vs MING/Kurono which also can appeal to a higher end collector looking for some unique design/variety addition (which someone else also mentioned here on this thread).

Maybe Halios is like a sweet spot between Zelos and C Ward.
 

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i was actually considering getting one of the earlier releases (a blue dial or a copper dial). Then saw the massena. I liked the honey dial. Then these debacles happened. Now am thinking, if i dont get the lottery win, maybe not meant to be. And i should focus on my watch plan (which doesnt include a ming).
the cool thing about Ming is that all watch plans have room for his design I feel... who knows, maybe in time there will be another one. The Massena is a huge debacle though I agree, like they had all the previous knowedge and still goofed.
 

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Massena posted some details about this drawing: RANDOM DRAW PROCEDURE | Massena LAB
"If you have not received an email from Massena LAB by June 1, it is safe to assume that your name was not selected."

This really pissed me off, the level of snobbery from Massena is getting unbearable. "Oh, if you're not one of the lucky winners, sod off, I don't want anything to do with you". After this s**tshow, they won't even take the time to send an email to everyone that has been left out frustrated to let them know that they weren't lucky and to thank them for their support?

I'm getting fed up with these two brands already. Maybe I'll end up becoming the flipper this fall when I get the blue 17.09 that I'm waiting for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #552 ·
Halios still doesn't belong in the prestige group, because the design to me just reminds me of millions of steel sport watches out there. Its a value priced Chirstopher Ward (or Aqua Terra) then..
I didn't say it belongs in this prestige group. If there was a prestige group for design, I don't think a lot of the Kuronos belong there either. The Chronograph 2 is a pretty standard chronograph design from the Patek Tasti Tondi era, and the other three handers have very strong Art Deco and vintage UG Polerouter inspiration. In short, they look like a few hundred other vintage watches.

But I get your point, and I only mentioned Halios because it was previously mentioned here.
 

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@monsters ...just looked up again what they said on IG after the release and the wording was "Across both variants and all the order windows, the number of watches produced stands at over 2,000 pieces." Split was 55%/45% in favor of blue.

I guess I read the "over" 2,000 as closer to 3k and you see it as closer to 2k....really splitting hairs but we agree much larger release than other Ming releases. In the end we will never know since they said they would not disclose the final numbers of the release.
 

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But due to the edition size on that one (around 3k pieces) you likely won't be making a huge bank.
I couldn't care less... When it comes to certain microbrands, like Ming, I care about the design and value proposition almost the same as the brand history and its founders. That's why I'm pissed, I feel disappointed by Ming lately to the point that I'm not that attracted to the brand anymore.

Since both Halios and Kurono were mentioned earlier in the thread, those are two great examples of microbrands with humble and committed founders that are genuinely working for their true fans and running away from snobbism. Kind of the opposite of what Ming is doing. Maybe I'm an idealist here, but these things matter to me as much as the watches themselves.
 

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@monsters ...just looked up again what they said on IG after the release and the wording was "Across both variants and all the order windows, the number of watches produced stands at over 2,000 pieces." Split was 55%/45% in favor of blue.

I guess I read the "over" 2,000 as closer to 3k and you see it as closer to 2k....really splitting hairs but we agree much larger release than other Ming releases. In the end we will never know since they said they would not disclose the final numbers of the release.
i also read it to be closer to 2K, if closer to 3k, i think they would just write close to 3K. as we've seen they are careful about their words :) but the other dimension here though is that that means each color is around 1K, and this is more apple/apples way of comparing I think, becuase for example as we've seen with Kurono, the pieces are indeed linked to the color. Perhaps someone looking for blue won't consider burgundy etc. (for me, I definitely would have never done blue and it fit in with my collection strategy). So I think the resale of the ming might still be quite good, especially when we look at the 3K-4K batch size of the latest kurono...
 
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