[WhtShadow]

Great post! Very informative. As others have said, there is reality, there is marketing hype, and there are the lawyers. Lawyers will always make them be conservative. Marketing will push for what gets them money in return. Reality is most 50m watches will be able to handle any swimming we mere mortals are likely to do.

Now, there are those that chose to go to ridiculous depths, and for them, a proper dive watch, and probably dive computer is called for, not an el cheapo WR model, but a real depth rated time piece.

Me, I'll wear and enjoy em!

Thanks Joakim!:-!

 

[Topher1556]

Mods: I think this needs to be copied (not moved) to the 'articles' section.

Then, when people ask about water resistance, we can quickly find the link.

Excellent information Joakim. I found the static vs. dynamic very informative...oh heck, the whole post was great. Thanks for saying in the first few lines that it's a long post.

About ISO divers and how they test beyond the rating: I read a post where someone tested an empty SKX007 case beyond 400m...and it passed. The case was empty just in case of failure. Check this out. I firmly believe many 200m watches will go far beyond their stated max depths. Heck, there was a Frogman on the world record deep dive (I think it was 300m plus).

 

[Doug507]

Great post and good info.

I have made several dives with 100M Timex Ironman (Ironmen) with no problems. I've seen guys dive with 50M Casios, too.

 

[JERSTERCA]

Great post and good info.

I have made several dives with 100M Timex Ironman (Ironmen) with no problems. I've seen guys dive with 50M Casios, too.

Great post :-! thanks for taking the time to share

 

[cal..45]

there are many watches from casio rated "water resist" which means not suitable for swimming or showering from the iso tests.

famous example f-91

but most people say they already used theses watches for swimming and showering or even forgot it in the washing machine.
so i guess this watch is at least 30 or even 50m WR.

you wanna have a good laugh? it even gets by far much better than that.

since a few weeks I own a casio sea-pathfinder SPf-60S-1VER. I wrote recently a review about this one:

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=154845

this watch is a sea-pathfinder, which means it is specifically designed - well you guess it - for the water :-d

besides its altimeter, barometer and thermometer it also got a depthmeter, which will record dives down o 30 meters. the watch itself is tested by casio for over two minutes in 25° celcius water temperature and a depth of 26,9 meters, according to the dive log. this watch is rated for 100 meters/10bar and is considered a diver.

now get this, in the manual is written the following:

"this watch is intended for use up to skin diving and snorkeling. never use this watch while scuba diving"


wtf? does there a secret contest exist between manufacturers, about how to addle best their customers? does really anyone believe people dive down to 30meters (or deeper) without scuba gear? its certainly possible for a few very capable and highly trained divers but otherwise very, very unlikely.

this is just as ridiculous and absurd as it gets, imagine a manufacturer of umbrellas with the warning "don't use it when it's raining, otherwise it could get wet"....o|o|o|

@ joakim,

great post by the way and very enjoyable to read, good work :-!

regards, holger

 

[Cabbai]

It took me some minutes to complete my reading of your post.
Thanks a lot for taking much more time to do a research and writing it.

 

[Funkywatch]

So, is a Frogman equal to the other G-Shocks? (I think that its best practical feature that raise the price is the "ISO" water resistance...)

 

[TacGuy]

Darn, there goes my "A.D.D" again!! I tried to read it all, i swear i did. :-xAll kidding aside, that was very interesting non the less. Explains alot. Thanks for taking the time to post. :-!

 

[lysanderxiii]

One of the major uses of ISO standards is establishing what is, and what is not, open for a false advertising law suit.

ISO 2281 and ISO 6425, as well as ISO 764, ISO1413, ISO 3159, ISO 3160, parts 1, 2 and 3, ISO 14856, ISO 1112, ISO 10553, and a few others I cannot remember are solely maintained for that end. This explains the "This watch is not for use while scuba diving," disclaimer found in the instructions. So if you take your WR 1000 atm rated (ISO 2281) watch scuba diving and it floods or you cannot read it in the murky depths, you run out of air and drown, your family can't suit the watch company. Despite the 10,000 meter depth rating, it "was not suitable for diving," it said so in the instructions.

Other standards, like ISO 3643, Metric Screw Thread Standards, or ISO 60086, part 3, Watch Battery Sizes, are primarily for industry to ensure that any brand of SR927SW 1.5 Volt Silver Oxide watch battery will power their watch and not over current the chip.

 

[Joakim Agren]

One of the major uses of ISO standards is establishing what is, and what is not, open for a false advertising law suit.

ISO 2281 and ISO 6425, as well as ISO 764, ISO1413, ISO 3159, ISO 3160, parts 1, 2 and 3, ISO 14856, ISO 1112, ISO 10553, and a few others I cannot remember are solely maintained for that end. This explains the "This watch is not for use while scuba diving," disclaimer found in the instructions. So if you take your WR 1000 atm rated (ISO 2281) watch scuba diving and it floods or you cannot read it in the murky depths, you run out of air and drown, your family can't suit the watch company. Despite the 10,000 meter depth rating, it "was not suitable for diving," it said so in the instructions.

Other standards, like ISO 3643, Metric Screw Thread Standards, or ISO 60086, part 3, Watch Battery Sizes, are primarily for industry to ensure that any brand of SR927SW 1.5 Volt Silver Oxide watch battery will power their watch and not over current the chip.

Interesting facts!:-!

How come you know so much about ISO?:-!

 

[stinkypete]

Nuno Gomes wore his Frogman down to over 271m in the Red Sea, so there you go.

 

[ausroamer]

Excellent Points Enjoyed Your Comments Cheers:-!:-!:-!

 

[Frogger]

Good sum up! |>
But this passage is making me wonder:

The difference from ISO 2281 is that here not only sampling is required but each and every watch must be tested

Are you sure EVERY single watch is tested to these requirements? That would mean every DIVER's watch was hit by a hammer.. and also that the manufacturer would need at least 50 hours more for one watch to produce.
Helium suited watches even 14 days more! Could explain the price difference, though.

 

[MountainMike]

Thanks for the info Joakim.:-!

I have read in TAG Heuer catalogue that they do 100% water resist check on their watches. Certain models like the 2000 series (aka Aquaracer was even tested beyond the rated depth). Over pressured by 5 bar (50m) at least...

Those who have the newest G-Shock Bible will see that Casio do conduct water-resist test on the Gs. It was shown in the bible that a tray of GW-M5600s wat put through the test.:-!

I would say that watch manufacturers are erring on the safe side. The fact that Nuno Gomes wore his Frogman beyond the rated 200m further proof this point. Think of the stated rating as water resistance (factored with safety factor):-!


Cheers,
MountainMike

 

[henxing]

Thanks for putting all that information together, it was a good read. I knew that the dynamic pressure from arm movement added a non-trivial pressure to the depth pressure, but I didn't think it was a significant amount. Now I don't have to go and research all that!

 

[cdude]

If it says "water resistant" it's goin' in the pool! Most watch buyers don't bother understanding the differences between the different depths. I was like that as a kid. People told me not to take my water resistant watch in the pool, and they tried to explain it to me that my watch would be ruined AFTER it had already survived many years of swimming. With some people they'll get it wet even if it doesn't say water resistant on it. Two examples are numerous databank calculators and the remote control watch, both Casios.

I wonder if all these ratings WERE true a long time ago when water resistance was a big deal on watches. My dad WAS a SCUBA diver a long time ago, so he can't be clueless on watches' water resistance.

One thing about 200M vs. 50M water resistance is that the gaskets for 200M models are usually thicker. I'm guessing a 200M watch will stay water resistant well enough to swim in the pool long after the gaskets have rotted away on the 50M model. I have no proof of this, it just makes sense.

 

[Lexxorcist]

One thing about 200M vs. 50M water resistance is that the gaskets for 200M models are usually thicker. I'm guessing a 200M watch will stay water resistant well enough to swim in the pool long after the gaskets have rotted away on the 50M model. I have no proof of this, it just makes sense.

I'm sure there's something to that. I was amazed when I saw the gasket on a 200m Vostok Amphibia, it's like a tractor tyre! (Photo from marc_wl on the Russian watch forum).

 

[Seamaster73]

Joakim, thanks for a truly brilliant post, which has been both fascinating and enjoyable to read. I really appreciate the hard work you obviously put into it. :-!

 

[azziman]

Very interesting read, thanks

 

[Joakim Agren]

Like my initial post was not longe enough I have investigated in some other standards to and here they are::-d

In addition to the ISO standards there exists other water protection standards as well. The most common one is the IPX specification also known as IEC 529 which is a European (ECC) specification for water resistance or moist protection but used worldwide hence the name (International Electrotechnical Commission, IEC). This standard is used to class all sorts of equipment(not just watches) in a specific class of water resistance level. There exists 9 classes ranging from IPX 0-8. Here are their demands:

IPX:
#0=No water protection at all

#1= Protection against dripping water the equvivalent of 3-5mm of rain during a 10 minute period. The condition is that the equipment in question is placed in normal working position.

#2=Same as above but the protection should be maintained when the equipment is tilted 15 degrees and also placed in 4 other positions other then the normal working position.

#3=Protected against water with applied pressure from a spraying hose. The protection must whitstand 10 liter/minute with a pressure of 80-100kN/m^2 for 3 minutes at a distance of 3 meters(10').

#4=Same as #3 but must also handle that pressure from all angles

#5=Protected against water beams, water that is projected trough a 6.3mm nozzle witha a flow of 12.5 liter/minute witha pressure the equvivalant of 30kN/m^2 for 3 minutes at a distance of 3 meters(10')

#6= Proteced against heavy lake, water that is projected trough a 12.5mm nozzle with a flow of 100 liter/minute by a pressure the equvivalant of 100kN/m^2 for 3 minutes at distance of 3 meters(10')

#7 Proteced against intrusion of water, the equipment must whitstand beeing descended to a depth of 1 meter(3.3') for 30 minutes

#8= Proteced from water intrusion under the conditions that the manufacturer descides.

There is also a Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS C 0920:2003 : Degrees of protection provided by enclosures) known as JIS and it is also graded in classes and very similar to the IPX standard. Here are the JIS classes:

JIS #0 No special protection

JIS #1 Vertically dripping water shall have no harmful effect (Drip resistant 1)

JIS #2 Dripping water at an angle up to 15 degrees from vertical shall have no harmful effect (Drip resistant 2)

JIS #3 Falling rain at an angle up to 60 degrees from vertical shall have no harmful effect (Rain resistant)

JIS #4 Splashing water from any direction shall have no harmful effect (Splash resistant)

JIS #5 Direct jetting water from any direction shall have no harmful effect (Jet resistant)

JIS #6 Direct jetting water from any direction shall not enter the enclosure (Water tight)

JIS #7 Water shall not enter the enclosure when it is immersed in water under defined conditions (Immersion resistant)

JIS #8 The equipment is usable for continuous submersion in water under specified pressure (Submersible)