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Thermocompensated, user-friendly rate adjustable “Casio” F-91W

58K views 358 replies 23 participants last post by  Mothdust  
#1 ·
First of all, a few disclaimers:
  1. I consider ‘HAQ’ to be ‘a watch whose manufacturer claims <10spy AND holds up to that specification in real life under a reasonably defined temperature range, USUALLY adopting some form of high frequency oscillator, temperature compensation or both.’
  2. I like this definition because it gives credit to serious manufacturers (should we wait a year after the release to discuss a new release because there’s real world data?) and because it excludes watches with dubious claims of accuracy that don’t really stand in practice (Bulovas and 8F Seiko). It also excludes watches with dubious claims that can in fact hold up to spec in real life but only in specific circumstances and wouldn’t if exposed to tests true HAQ are subject to, like temperature fluctuations (Elektronikas, above all).
  3. I still don’t know how to reconcile the COSC test with my definition of HAQ, but I do t think it’s necessary right now.
  4. I own a Technochas ChN-01, and even though it’s my most accurate watch so far (visually less than two seconds off since September, on and off the wrist), I know it’s not HAQ, it’s just well regulated. This Casio is different, believe me.
So, about the “Casio”.

I put it in quotation marks because the only things that remain from the F-91W are the case, LCD, module holder, case back and strap. The module is a completely new thing.

I bought this chip from Crowd Supply. A SAM L22 processor assumes the timekeeping functions of the new module, taking timing data from a simple 32KHz quartz crystal. What is really innovative, however, is the addition of a thermistor.

When I bought it, I asked the developer about its accuracy and the possibility of using the thermistor for accuracy compensation, and he basically said the hardware is there, you just need the code (more developments here).

The code first came in the form of a simple count addition/suppression screen in the settings, much like you do on an Elektronika. I, for instance, set it to 20 (add 20 counts) to compensate for it running 2 seconds a day fast from the factory. But then again this was no HAQ just as the Elektronika is not HAQ; it was just a rate adjustable Casio.

But now I believe it could qualify for HAQ status. A recent pull request answered my wishes and some very cool features were introduced. Full details are here, but much like a Technochas ChN-01, it does automatically adjust the rate every time you reset the seconds AND it accounts for temperature fluctuation.

Since Nanosecond and Finetune have been available to end users (a couple of months back), my watch has gained less than a second, being worn on rotation with other watches.
My username started out as a joke, but it’s now real.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Really cool project. I just pre-ordered two boards with the built in temperature sensor, and then ordered an A168 and an F-91W off Amazon. It looks like the boards won't ship until August 31st, but the watches will already be here when the boards arrive.

I love the idea and the board swap looks like a breeze.

Thanks!

Edited to add: See my oops post below.
 
#17 ·
Really cool project. I just pre-ordered two boards with the built in temperature sensor, and then ordered an A168 and an F-91W off Amazon. It looks like the boards won't ship until August 31st, but the watches will already be here when the boards arrive.

I love the idea and the board swap looks like a breeze.

Thanks!
Oops. I ordered an A168, with the belief that it was simply the metal version of the F-91W. That's not correct. The A168 is physically larger and has a different backlight technology. I don't know if it's compatible with the replacement board or not.

The F-91W is guaranteed compatible because that's what the board was developed for.

From my Google searches, if you don't want a black plastic watch the A158 is compatible with the board. So I ordered a couple different A158 watches.

I was wondering about the compatibility of the A168 when I was looking at my picture and noticing that the layout of the LCD screens were not identical between the A168 and the F-91W.

At some point I'll probably tear the A168 apart just to see how the board looks compared to the F-91W.

Anyway, apologies if my mistake induced anybody to buy an A168.

If anybody finds anything definitive about the A168's compatibility please share - but my initial searches seem to indicate it's a no-go for this board.
 
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#4 ·
This project appears to be VERY simple if you don't need the buzzer to work. If you want the buzzer to work then you have to transplant a little contact finger from the OEM Casio board to the replacement board - and that would require a bit of coordination.
 
#6 ·
Did you watch the video of how to install the replacement circuit board? It's not bad at all.

 
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#12 · (Edited)
Well, the replacement circuit boards probably won't be here until sometime in August (according to the website), but I went ahead and ordered the watches. So I'm ready for the boards when they arrive.

Edited to add: See my oops post below.

Image
 
#15 ·
Why the delay for the boards?
It's a new version of the board - with the temperature sensor built in (instead of being an add-on board) and some other modifications to bring the price down slightly. It takes time to get the actual boards made, and then get the components assembled to them, tested, etc.

Has anyone seen watch shells for this board?
I'm not sure what you mean. I assume you mean something other than the case, etc. as the board is a replacement board to be used in the Casio F-91W (and its various compatible versions).
 
#16 ·
[QUOTE not sure what you mean. I assume you mean something other than the case, etc. as the board is a replacement board to be used in the Casio F-91W (and its various compatible versions).
[/QUOTE]
I meant a replacement for buying one of the two Casio watches.
 
#18 ·
I'm not sure what you mean. I assume you mean something other than the case, etc. as the board is a replacement board to be used in the Casio F-91W (and its various compatible versions).
I meant a replacement for buying one of the two Casio watches.
Unlikely. You're not just using the case and bracelet. You're also using the LCD display, battery contact, buzzer (built into the caseback), etc.

I've seen some talk of using an F-91W clone as a donor but mostly discouraging as the chances of the contacts for the LCD lining up, etc., are poor.

By the looks of things this is specifically for an F-91W or a watch that is electrically and mechanically identical (which it would seem the A158 is, but the A168 isn't).
 
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#23 ·
If anybody wants to play with the watch, virtually, there is an emulator out there of the base firmware build. You can access it here.
 
#30 ·
I don't think this would be possible. The position and size of the battery makes it appear as though it would be nearly impossible to connect anything to the USB connector on the circuit board while the battery is installed and the whole assembly is inside the case.
 
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#31 ·
I have a W-59 lying around, and I have also bought the Sensor Watch module, which is meant to replace the original 593 module of the F-91W and shares the same dimensions with it.

My question is if the 593/Sensor Watch module would fit in a W59 case, meant for the 590 module.
Hi, I saw that you asked this question about a year ago, but didn’t receive a reply.

Did you ever try your Sensor Watch module in the W-59, and if so did it fit?

I’m asking because I also have a W-59 and would prefer to use this instead of an F-91W for the Sensor Watch module.

If the Sensor Watch module doesn’t work with the 590 module, then would the 593 module from an F-91W fit inside the W-59?
I’m sure it would because the two watches are pretty much identical in size and both have the same button layout.
 
#32 ·
Unfortunately my W-59 died when I tried modding it (installing glow-in-the-dark tape) and I threw the whole watch away. I still wonder if the Sensor Watch board fits the 590 module or if the whole Sensor Watch board/593 module fits the W-59 case.

I, too, would love a Sensor Watch with better water resistance and the open lugs from the W-59.
 
#39 ·
For the Sensor Board upgrade? It sounds like if you use Finetune and Nanosec to fine tune the oscillator you can get it to around +/- 10 SPY. From what I've read on the various pages.
 
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#41 ·
I'd certainly be willing to put one together for you when they come out. But you might want to check and see how much a local watch battery-change place would charge. Other than soldering the buzzer contact from the donor to the new board it's not much work for them to do it, and it might end up being cheaper than having to ship the watch and the board both directions.
 
#48 ·
My two orders both still look like this:
Image
 
#50 ·
Nah. They'll ship when they ship. I'm not worried about it.
 
#51 ·
#52 ·
When reading through the August 31st update I read the below, with a bit of disappointment:

Your Sensor Watch Lite will ship with a build of Movement with five watch faces in rotation: you get the simple clock, the world clock, sunrise/sunset, moon phase and stopwatch. After that you also get the preferences and time set screens, which allow you to set preferences like LED color and, of course, the time and date.

I feel like this version of the firmware is packed with useful stuff — and yet, every board now ships with a temperature sensor, and this selection of watch faces doesn’t make use of it.
So it sounds like the boards are going to ship without Finetune and Nanosec installed. So it would seem that immediately upon receipt the first thing the boards are going to need is to be flashed with an update to add those features. To me the whole thing is pointless without taking full advantage of the thermocompensation.

Fortunately I don't think it's a big deal to add those "faces" to the firmware. So it'll be something to play with when the boards show up.