Thoughts About A Possible Next Pil-Mil Watch Project
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Martin,
You raised very valid points. My POV was that we were able to accomplish the Laco project because it is an "independent" OEM and they did not have to modify a lot of components.
If we approach an independent company in US, the primary issue will be keeping the watch affordable. It will be true more so with an upstart company. The company will have to import several components and then cost of assembling the watches. Seeing how much customization we desired with Laco (rightfully so), it will be very difficult to achieve that with an American company and keep the watch affordable.
For example, last year I went to d.Freemont (then in Arizona) and saw a beautiful chronograph model. The only issue was that the movement was not decorated and it had a display case back. I requested just for asthetic reasons, to replace the screws with blue screws. The cost of doing that was $700USD.
I definately believe in trying our best and we should do so. However, I also believe in being practical. Laco and Stowa actually go beyond the norm of accomplishing such projects. They are also (luckliy for us) in the right region for watchmaking where parts can be resourced somewhat easily. A US company or an upstart will have a tough time sourcing exact parts (think Laco crown), let alone accomodating our customization.
- Is this A-11 homage watch acceptable to be made by non-OEM?
- What will be considered a resonable price for this watch (for features)?
- If parts are sourced from China; is that acceptable?
Imho our best option for an Affordable watch will be a field watch by Stowa and or Baumuster A by Laco.
Cheers,
Bhanu
You raised very valid points. My POV was that we were able to accomplish the Laco project because it is an "independent" OEM and they did not have to modify a lot of components.
If we approach an independent company in US, the primary issue will be keeping the watch affordable. It will be true more so with an upstart company. The company will have to import several components and then cost of assembling the watches. Seeing how much customization we desired with Laco (rightfully so), it will be very difficult to achieve that with an American company and keep the watch affordable.
For example, last year I went to d.Freemont (then in Arizona) and saw a beautiful chronograph model. The only issue was that the movement was not decorated and it had a display case back. I requested just for asthetic reasons, to replace the screws with blue screws. The cost of doing that was $700USD.
I definately believe in trying our best and we should do so. However, I also believe in being practical. Laco and Stowa actually go beyond the norm of accomplishing such projects. They are also (luckliy for us) in the right region for watchmaking where parts can be resourced somewhat easily. A US company or an upstart will have a tough time sourcing exact parts (think Laco crown), let alone accomodating our customization.
- Is this A-11 homage watch acceptable to be made by non-OEM?
- What will be considered a resonable price for this watch (for features)?
- If parts are sourced from China; is that acceptable?
Imho our best option for an Affordable watch will be a field watch by Stowa and or Baumuster A by Laco.
Cheers,
Bhanu
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477 Posts
In terms of quality, available componets and keeping the price affordable I think we will be limited to German companies. MKII would be a great fit, but Bill has so many iron's in the fire I doubt he would be interested. RGM might be an option, but I doubt they would be interested in building anything in our price range. I guess there is no harm in at least asking them though if the A-11 ends up being the model chosen.
Personally living in the US I would pay dearly for an A-11 homage. I would prefer to have it made in the US, but that may not be a realistic option. Under these circumstances asking a German company to make the watch is fine with me if we can find one that is interested. I believe it is much more important to produce a quality product at an affordable price.
In any case I will support whatever decision is made based on the fact that the Laco project turned out so nicely and we have so many dedicated forum members.
Please let me know if I can help in any way. :-!
Personally living in the US I would pay dearly for an A-11 homage. I would prefer to have it made in the US, but that may not be a realistic option. Under these circumstances asking a German company to make the watch is fine with me if we can find one that is interested. I believe it is much more important to produce a quality product at an affordable price.
In any case I will support whatever decision is made based on the fact that the Laco project turned out so nicely and we have so many dedicated forum members.
Please let me know if I can help in any way. :-!
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Hi -
I've also got that watch, albeit on the classic khaki band.
However, it's not an A-11. The movement inside is a Elgin 685, the original Elgin A-11 has an Elgin 539 with 16 jewels (this according to the TM 9-1575 War Department Technical Manual: Ordinance Maintenance, Wrist Watches, Pocket Watches, Stop Watches and Clocks from 6 April 1945, War Department, i.e. the repair manual for military watchmakers...). The movement in the A-11 is actually the Model 1783 Grade 539, 8/0 size.
You've probably got engraving on the back showing it as an A-11. The case is fine, just that someone, somewhere, has a bunch of NOS Elgin 685 movements from gun cameras from the Korean war and NOS A-11 cases, and put the cases and the movements, along with the dials, together. I got mine on eBay, and I call it my A11Franken. We've had a discussion on this over on vintages a while ago, and I am convinced - it took some convincing, too - that this is, unfortunately, not a real issued watch.
It's an outstanding movement: 18 jewels, 18'000 beat, 23.7mm diameter, 8/0 size, and was adjusted for multiple positions. It was manufactured in both 12 and 24 hour variants, and was probably one of the finer Elgin movements made for the military. I know mine shows excellent isochronism and runs around 7s/day fast, which given the age is righteous indeed.
But the production run was in 1952, according to Ranfft.
JohnF
I've also got that watch, albeit on the classic khaki band.
However, it's not an A-11. The movement inside is a Elgin 685, the original Elgin A-11 has an Elgin 539 with 16 jewels (this according to the TM 9-1575 War Department Technical Manual: Ordinance Maintenance, Wrist Watches, Pocket Watches, Stop Watches and Clocks from 6 April 1945, War Department, i.e. the repair manual for military watchmakers...). The movement in the A-11 is actually the Model 1783 Grade 539, 8/0 size.
You've probably got engraving on the back showing it as an A-11. The case is fine, just that someone, somewhere, has a bunch of NOS Elgin 685 movements from gun cameras from the Korean war and NOS A-11 cases, and put the cases and the movements, along with the dials, together. I got mine on eBay, and I call it my A11Franken. We've had a discussion on this over on vintages a while ago, and I am convinced - it took some convincing, too - that this is, unfortunately, not a real issued watch.
It's an outstanding movement: 18 jewels, 18'000 beat, 23.7mm diameter, 8/0 size, and was adjusted for multiple positions. It was manufactured in both 12 and 24 hour variants, and was probably one of the finer Elgin movements made for the military. I know mine shows excellent isochronism and runs around 7s/day fast, which given the age is righteous indeed.
But the production run was in 1952, according to Ranfft.
JohnF
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11,209 Posts
I'll have something to say about that in a few days. ;-)
How about a replica RAF Lemania 1-Button? Should be able to get a
Sea-gull movement modified?
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I did a quick "search" to see if this had been suggested before, but
didn't find anything, but if it has then my apologies. Or if this is not
the right thread to post this.
Sea-gull movement modified?
I did a quick "search" to see if this had been suggested before, but
didn't find anything, but if it has then my apologies. Or if this is not
the right thread to post this.
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Please note the proposal for a special Watchuseek A-11 Homage Watch in collaboration with Bill Yao on the main Pil-Mil forum: https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=207569
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