Thoughts on this Signal alarm watch?

2510 Views 22 Replies 6 Participants Last post by wolf3d, Oct 1, 2012

wolf3d

Discussion Starter · Sep 24, 2012 (Edited)

Hello dear forum members, I need your help once again. This time I have a chance to buy a watch, which design is probably the most appealing for me from all Russian watches- Signal alarm watch. Still, its not that cheap (somewhere around 90$, not Sturmanskie, but still quite much :-d ) Here is a picture:

Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Jewellery

Any thoughts about actual pricing (I can actually discuss that with a seller) and the watch itself?

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schnurrp

· #2 · Sep 24, 2012

Looks good except some of the red alarm numbers on the perimeter appear faded (may be the photo) and the alarm crown is a replacement. On the other hand A gold case in decent condition is hard to find and a dial with that center recess is different. So some good and some bad but all-in-all I could see this watch coming directly from the owner in this condition and while not perfect, not that bad, either. I'd try to get the price down a little mostly because of the crown but it's in the ballpark.

That's my opinion.

wolf3d

Discussion Starter · #3 · Sep 24, 2012

schnurrp said:
Looks good except some of the red alarm numbers on the perimeter appear faded (may be the photo) and the alarm crown is a replacement. On the other hand A gold case in decent condition is hard to find and a dial with that center recess is different. So some good and some bad but all-in-all I could see this watch coming directly from the owner in this condition and while not perfect, not that bad, either. I'd try to get the price down a little mostly because of the crown but it's in the ballpark.

That's my opinion.

Thank you very much for a really quick feedback! I'll surely include an argument about the crown to slightly reduce a price. Condition is somewhat good, sad thing those red numbers seems to be faded... Do you think it would be possible to ask a watchmaker to clean that dust on the lower part of the dial? And is it possible to date this watch?

schnurrp

· #4 · Sep 24, 2012

It's been my experience that most marks seen on watch dials that appear to be dirt, dust, etc. are actually discoloration caused by moisture or mold, etc. in the varnish applied to the dial and cannot, therefor, be removed without removing the varnish and the numbers, etc.! Yes, I learned the hard way! The dial can be washed with warm water and a mild soap using a very soft brush to remove whatever surface dirt is there but that's about all.

The watch is from the '60s and that's about as exact as you can get unless someone has that dial with the recessed center in a dated catalog.

Since you didn't supply a picture of the back I forgot to mention an important detail of the alarm watches of this era. They usually had "double" backs as shown below:

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wolf3d

Discussion Starter · #5 · Sep 24, 2012

All right, thanks for the tips, I guess I won't clean those, unless those which are really just dust stuck on the side of the glass. I'll also look into its back when I'll meet with the seller

wolf3d

Discussion Starter · #6 · Sep 25, 2012 (Edited)

2

Contacted the seller, he claims that those red numbers look like that just because of the photo and only are a bit faded. By the way, he is also selling two other watches for a similar price, just thinking if they are rarer or more valuable?

This one is cheaper by almost one fourth the price, with 2809A movement:

Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Jewellery

Even cheaper one:

Analog watch Watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Jewellery

These two arent as appealing to me, but I might have enough money to buy one of these if they are valuable enough for my collection

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olie4

· #7 · Sep 25, 2012

As an amateur Russian watch collector I like both of the first two watches. Although there are signs of fading on the dial of the Signal, I dont think it is excessive for its age. especially the red, somehow red always seems to fade very fast. If you place yourself back in time in Russia when these watches roamed the streets, I think those that were preserved to look like this watch were the lucky ones and we are fortunate to get them in these conditions. Personally, I like the second watch better, which, please correct me if wrong, is a Volna, supposedly one of the best older movements made in Russia and based upon the Zenith 135 chrono. I think they were produced for only about five years because of high costs. The last one is a cheaper Zim- not interesting at all. Hope I didnt mislead you!

schnurrp

· #8 · Sep 25, 2012 (Edited)

Good comments olie4. The Vostok is an example of the 2809 movement watch that won intenational awards and in certain configurations is considered the only "chronometer grade" wrist watch ever produced by the Russian watch industry. Unfortunately it is also one of the top most difficult watches to find in authentic form. It's often frankened, faked, and fooled with and an authentic one is pretty rare.

Here is a link to a recent thread posted by Storyteller one of the most knowledgeable collectors of 2809s on the forum. Good general information:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/three-generations-vostok-precision-740114.html

You would have to see the movement on the one you are considering before it could be authenticated. The case, dial, hands, and crown appear fine. For me, if the two watches were in similar condition and both were authentic I would choose the Vostok over the Signal. I like to wear my vintage watches and I rarely use an alarm watch so that function is a useless complication. They're both about the same age.

The value of the ZIM would depend entirely on condition and what movement is present. Not a very rare or valuable watch, though.

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wolf3d

Discussion Starter · #9 · Sep 25, 2012

Thanks for your feedback! Vostok looks realy nice for me too, but I really love the design of Signal. I really hate to choose, but after paying taxes for a flat I think I will be able to buy both of them haha. ZIM doesn't look appealing to me, so I am quite happy that it's not that valuable. By the way, according to that article, isn't 2809B a bit less rare and precise compared to 2809?

wolf3d

Discussion Starter · #10 · Sep 25, 2012

All right, just agreed to buy both Vostok and Signal tomorow

olie4

· #11 · Sep 26, 2012

Thanks schnurp for the excellent lead to the article by Storyteller on the Vostok Precisions/ Volnas (are they the same?) Guess armed with this new knowledge, I will start the process to determine whether my Volnas are frankens or not. What to do if they are? I love wearing them both, and like their appearances a lot. They are also excellent runners. So I guess if they are frankens , I will keep enjoying them and use my newly found knowledge on future purchases. I always give frankens the slight benefit of the doubt: maybe they were not "frankenised" simply to con the buyer, but was an honest attempt, maybe years ago, by some watchmaker to keep a great old watch alive... Anyway guys, "HI", as you all can see I am new, have been lurking in the shadows for long, but only recently decided to join. Dont have much technical knowledge to offer, but is a fast learner.

schnurrp

· #12 · Sep 26, 2012

olie4 said:
Thanks schnurp for the excellent lead to the article by Storyteller on the Vostok Precisions/ Volnas (are they the same?) Guess armed with this new knowledge, I will start the process to determine whether my Volnas are frankens or not. What to do if they are? I love wearing them both, and like their appearances a lot. They are also excellent runners. So I guess if they are frankens , I will keep enjoying them and use my newly found knowledge on future purchases. I always give frankens the slight benefit of the doubt: maybe they were not "frankenised" simply to con the buyer, but was an honest attempt, maybe years ago, by some watchmaker to keep a great old watch alive... Anyway guys, "HI", as you all can see I am new, have been lurking in the shadows for long, but only recently decided to join. Dont have much technical knowledge to offer, but is a fast learner.

Welcome, olie4! I have a handful of "non-authentic" Vostok 2809 watches from my early days of collecting and I like to wear them too. I just refer to the various Vostok Volnas, etc. by the one thing they all have in common, the 2809 movement.

Yes, I enjoy making up stories to explain the appearance of non-authentic watches. I can see an owner taking his 2809 watch in for a repair and asking his watchmaker if he could just put in one of those new gold-colored movements with the blue stars. "I'd also like to have a red second hand so I can see it better..." and so on.

wolf3d

Discussion Starter · #13 · Sep 26, 2012

5

Both of the watches are mine now, so happy about both! As always, thank you dear forum members for your help, I can't really say how many times already Schnurrp helped me! Here are the watches:

Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Jewellery

Analog watch Watch accessory Watch Fashion accessory Strap

Sorry for rather bad quality of the photos, but I must say that all of those red numbers can be perfectly seen, just a bit faded.

Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Jewellery

Can't believe that I did it, but I opened the back of Vostok and took a picture of the movement:

Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Strap

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schnurrp

· #14 · Sep 26, 2012

Good for you, wolf3d and thanks for the pictures! You now own 2 highly-collectible Russsian watches in decent original condition. They both look to be just as they were when they left the factory except for a little wear-and-tear and a replacement crown on the Signal. A Vostok like that with everything apparently original is very hard to find. While the 2809A movement is considered "non-precision" the total authentic package is very desirable and leaves room in your collection for future acquisitions (you don't want it to be completely downhill from here).

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wolf3d

Discussion Starter · #15 · Sep 26, 2012

Well said, thank you very much! I really like both of them and they feel valuable and vintage. While Vostok will most likely be put as a part of my collection, I am more than sure I'll sometimes wear my Signal as it just looks so beautiful to me.

DolleDolf

· #16 · Sep 26, 2012

Very nice! I say: wear them! That is what they were made for. not to gather dust somewhere!

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wolf3d

Discussion Starter · #17 · Sep 26, 2012

DolleDolf said:
Very nice! I say: wear them! That is what they were made for. not to gather dust somewhere!

Thanks! Yeah, I guess you are right, I feel really bad then I don't wear every one of my watches at least once a week, no matter if it's my cheap Amphibia or really valuable Sturmanskie

serdal23

· #18 · Sep 26, 2012

Big congrats on your two gorgeous Soviet purchases, my friend.

I also love to have as many vintage Soviet timepieces as possible. They look very elegant and beautiful, and they work very strong as well!

I am planning to purchase my second Signal Alarm timepiece at this very moment.

Wear them in the best of health, and please update us on the functioning and accuracy from time to time . . .

Capt. Serdal

schnurrp

· #19 · Sep 26, 2012

wolf3d said:
Thanks! Yeah, I guess you are right, I feel really bad then I don't wear every one of my watches at least once a week, no matter if it's my cheap Amphibia or really valuable Sturmanskie

Let's see a picture of your other two, particularly the valuable Sturmanskie.

wolf3d

Discussion Starter · #20 · Sep 27, 2012

Thank you very much serdal23!

Schnurrp, I'm talking about my Sturmanskie I bought after getting help in this thread, you should remeber it: https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/buying-sturmanskie-watch-744680.html

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