WatchUSeek Watch Forums banner

1 - 20 of 91 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,130 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I recently started a thread about some obscure details of Vostok Precision movement, which quickly moved to a discussion on how to distinguish a VP from a mule or franken. Honestly, I'm never sure, but some general trends still exist and today I made some photos to illustrate them.

The first generation of VP 2809 is with white movement and I have seen it only with this type of dial:

7857322056_1c9ee85f6d_c.jpg


It was produced 1957 - 1960 and has quarter and year of production stamped on the bridge.


In parallel, a lower grade 2809 'Volna' was produced between 1958 and 1960 with white movement and quarter / year of production indicated on the bridge.

7857329486_9d69bc0be8_c.jpg

However, notice the difference in the fonts and the quality of engraving. The A in "22 кАмня" in VP is sharp angled, compared to the more rotund "22 камня" in Volna. This important observation belongs to Egern from watch.ru

7857330518_b26062bf59_c.jpg

7857323994_fee027e684_c.jpg

The shockproof device on VP looks a bit different. Maybe some more knowledgeable forum member could help?


The second generation of Vostok Precision was produced between 1961 and 1964. It has yellow (gold-plated) movement and =ЧЧЗ= logo.

7857325154_2b2438956a_c.jpg

This is the most common type of VP and unfortunately the most difficult to tell from the ordinary Volna / Vostok 2809A, which - according to the Soviet state standards (ГОСТ) had inferior acuracy - +/- 30 sec. per day against +5/-10 for VP (actually, I wonder why it should be +5/-10, instead of +/-8, or +10/-5; never mind). Plenty of VP dials with this type of movement - from early ones, like on the first photo, to latest ones usually associated with third-generation VP movements.



The problem is that there are also plenty of Vostok simple, without Precision adjective, with the same yellow movement with =ЧЧЗ= logo.

7857334764_521b7015d9_c.jpg

While in the same time there are several honest Volna with white movement and =ЧЧЗ= logo, produced between 1961 and 1964.

7857331686_4162a7e6a1_c.jpg

So how to explain the yellow =ЧЧЗ= movements in Vostok non-Precision watches? The strongest theory is that these are VP movements which didn't pass quality tests. (I have some doubts - because the first and third generations movements were obviously produced on different lines; I can't imagine that they first passed the tests, hen were disassembled, had their bridges or mainplate engraved, and reassembled - but still have to admit that this is the best argumented theory).



The third generation of VP was produced after 1964 and has two important modifications - the "В" (like " Восток") logo and usually has smaller jewels. Most of the VP with such logo have 18mm lugs (against the 16mm lugs of the earlier generations). All of them are yellow.

7857327278_c6f30e7b11_c.jpg

All VP from this B-logo generation that I have, have 2809 engraved under the balance

DSCN5174.jpg

DSCN5178.jpg

DSCN5180.jpg

In parallel, a Vostok non-precision was produced with white movement, smaller jewels, and B (looking a bit like @) logo.

7857338016_808c3851b5_c.jpg

7857338888_54e809c0ce_c.jpg

It has 2809A engraved under the balance wheel.

DSCN5183.jpg


Again, these are just trends - a specific type of movement is most often associated with specific dial and case. I can imagine situations that older movements stocked from earlier years, were put in newer cases under newer dials (or vice versa). So consider this post as a beginning of a discussion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,174 Posts
Been after a Volna for quite awhile but a nightmare to follow so many thanks for the thread.
Still can't understand as to why so many different dials for a run of so few years.
Wish they re-started production in a st.st. 38 or 40mm case
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,872 Posts
Are there such Vostok 2809 with not screw back?
I have many Volnas and Vostok precision and not, but all with screw-in back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,130 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Vaurien, all honest 2809 - incl. Almaz, Volna, Vostok, and Vostok Precision that I have seen, have two-piece caseback + screw-in ring. There are cases of obscure origin with one piece caseback, I don't remember if they were snap or screw-in, currently available on that frankenmasters' wallmart, aukro.ua.

Watch22, Volna was produced between 1958 and - it seems - 1964, when it was replaced by Vostok-branded watches with white 2809A movement. They never had 'Precision' adjective, because they were not precision class watches. Under the Soviet standards, Volna had an expected daily accuracy of +/- 30 sec. per day, which was lower even than 1st class Poljot movements, let alone the chronometer class (or 'Precision class' in Soviet terminology) VP. Old Volna could be very accurate (I have one with - 6 sec. per day), but they were not supposed to be 'Precision', this is one of the few things I am sure.

CIMG5184.JPG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,832 Posts
Vaurien, all honest 2809 - incl. Almaz, Volna, Vostok, and Vostok Precision that I have seen, have two-piece caseback + screw-in ring. There are cases of obscure origin with one piece caseback, I don't remember if they were snap or screw-in, currently available on that frankenmasters' wallmart, aukro.ua.

...
Do you think that this Vostok is a franken?







...and this too?









Both have the same snap caseback
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,799 Posts
Watch22, Volna was produced between 1958 and - it seems - 1964, when it was replaced by Vostok-branded watches with white 2809A movement. They never had 'Precision' adjective, because they were not precision class watches. Under the Soviet standards, Volna had an expected daily accuracy of +/- 30 sec. per day, which was lower even than 1st class Poljot movements, let alone the chronometer class (or 'Precision class' in Soviet terminology) VP. Old Volna could be very accurate (I have one with - 6 sec. per day), but they were not supposed to be 'Precision', this is one of the few things I am sure.
I didn't know that.

Now I regret sending back that Boctok Precision that arrived broken (one of the few watches I ever sent back) figuring I didn't really need it since I had a Volna.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,130 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thank you too, Vaurien.

Bubba48, I think both watches were recased. Actually, people from watch.ru who bought such cases from aukro.ua, seem quite satsified - after all, this is a new perfectly fitting stainless stell case against the old poorly chromed one.
You can read opinions of satisfied customers here (http://forum.watch.ru/showthread.php?p=1086974&highlight=Волна+корпус#post1086974) and here (http://forum.watch.ru/showthread.php?p=986934&highlight=Волна+корпус#post986934).

The upper watch from your first post seem a bit problematic. The dial looks like this one

2566662818.jpg

available on aukro (Циферблат от чаÑ�ов ВоÑ�ток Прецизионный, новый (2566662818) - Aukro.ua - крупнейший интернет-аукцион Украины. БезопаÑ�ные покупки и продажи в интернÐ). The movement looks like a first-generation Volna, the second hand and the crown also are a replacement, but the hour and minute hands could be original:).
Regarding the second watch - the movement has 2809 engraved under the balance, so it certainly is from a VP. The dial and hands also look authentic. I can't say for sure if the left the factory together - I have three VP with this type of dial and all of them have =ЧЧЗ= logo movements - but I think everything is fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
Being a proud new owner of a Volna, this thread is a gem!

Volna was produced between 1958 and - it seems - 1964, when it was replaced by Vostok-branded watches with white 2809A movement. They never had 'Precision' adjective, because they were not precision class watches. Under the Soviet standards, Volna had an expected daily accuracy of +/- 30 sec. per day, which was lower even than 1st class Poljot movements, let alone the chronometer class (or 'Precision class' in Soviet terminology) VP. Old Volna could be very accurate (I have one with - 6 sec. per day), but they were not supposed to be 'Precision', this is one of the few things I am certain
Noticed this morsel of info, and couldn't help but think it was odd that my Volnas movement is etched "4-57" as its manufacture date.



Is this fourth quarter '57 just sort if close enough as far as your date range?

Also, I think I see another face in this thread that is very similar to my watch... but it's hard to believe that a dial this clean is original.



Is this a re-dial?

Here's the back:





Thoughts and comments welcome.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
530 Posts
o| On a Sunday evening in late September, while an old volna (170909542910) with "first generation vp movement" was sold, I was waiting at the store to buy my tobacco :

T2eC16JQE9s3HEEncBQUhtv388w60_12.JPG
KGrHqZHJDEUHUMIpBQUhuSvQ460_12.JPG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
Welcome to 2809 addicts! Your watch is a redial, but the movement is one of the earliest and very rare one, so you are lucky.

The 2809 movements from 1957 are a puzzle for me, that is why I didn't discuss them in this thread. Instead, I tried to systematize my questions here (https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/two-vostok-2809-puzzles-733380.html).
Thanks for the warm welcome! Great to be here.

Well, this news is bitter-sweet. Glad the movement looks to be genuine (and a rare early production!) but sad that it's a re-dial.

Is it at least a "decent" re-dial? I think a saw an original Volna dial that looked to have a similar font and "sun burst" design. I think this dial is gorgeous. That might be all that matters. ;)

Pretty funny, but I only started learning about and collecting vintage watches about a month ago. No small coincidence, that 3 of the 5 watches I've acquired are Soviet.

There's something about that that has more character, and feeling, to me at least. More mystery. More "unknown" due to where and when they came from.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
483 Posts
Well, I think the dial is a remake of an original dial - similar dials have obviously been originally used in Volnas.

On the other hand, concerning the origin of the dial - well, your guess is as good as mine. I don't think they're new old stock, though, in the sense that a stash of original, unused Soviet-era dials has been found at a distant warehouse.

However, main point is you like the watch. Also, the movement really is a bit on the rare side.

Topi
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,130 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Similar dials were offered on aukro.ua a few months ago. They are a remake of the original dial and look quite nice, I think. The same seller offered also Volna dials with waves.
I think you are lucky, it is a huge sweet candy and only a tiny amount of bitter aftertaste. The movement is really rare and I will gladly exchange any fully original Volna of mine for the movement you got.
 
1 - 20 of 91 Posts
Top