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One thing I would jump at, and am surprised has never happened, would be a Rolex Submariner in a Titanium case. I take it the machining of the case in a different material would not present many difficulties?
Sinn, Panerai, Omega have all produced a Titanium variant why not Rolex?
I'm sure I'm not alone in finding the cachet of a ti Sub attractive.
Anyone else?
Any rumours from Rolex in the future?
 

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I like that idea as well but your assumption about the machining of the case presenting no problems is not quite right. In general machining Ti is much more problematic than many metals which can result in more rejected parts and/or slower machining times causing higher unit costs. That being said I think Ti is still one of the best materials to make a watch out of but my first choice would be a stellite type alloy like Haynes #25. It would be even tougher to use but superior in every way to Ti or Rolex's 900 (316L) series SS.

Vince
 

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vjb.knife said:
I like that idea as well but your assumption about the machining of the case presenting no problems is not quite right. In general machining Ti is much more problematic than many metals which can result in more rejected parts and/or slower machining times causing higher unit costs. That being said I think Ti is still one of the best materials to make a watch out of but my first choice would be a stellite type alloy like Haynes #25. It would be even tougher to use but superior in every way to Ti or Rolex's 900 (316L) series SS.

Vince
Titanuim is not a very pretty metal, basically an industrial metal that scratches easily. Rolex uses 904L SS. =) maverick
 

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Osmosis

As maybe said in an other forum, the problem with titanium is the osmosis phenomenon.

As a rolex is made to perform well during many many years (living example with my own 1680 bought new in 1978), the back will melt/osmoses with the box, and the watch will be impossible to open when, after 25 years, service will be necessary...

Titanium, IMHO, is made for:

1) fragile watches
2) watches owned by carefull people

(in both case, it's not me :) )

H3
 

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Well, watches are made out of Ti, however, I feel it may not be necessary as SS is hard to beat as well as gold and Plat.

In any event, I Don't think Rolex will ever make one.

Best,

LV Green
 

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I don't think Rolex will make a Ti watch either because I don't think they will make a large watch like the GP Seahawk II Pro. I love my Seadweller and Sub as well and am only interested in Diving watches. So for me Gold and Platinum are not applicable materials as far as I am concerned in a diving watch.

Rolex's 904L stainless is fine although not significantly different from 316L and not hardenable as they are both Austenitic steels. So it is not harder than some of the available Ti alloys, which can be made to reach 50 Rc, and are more corrosion resistant and as for appearance can be polished to the same high gloss that Stainless can.

Vince
 
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If Rolex sells every watch they make now why would they go to the added expense of developing another watch?
 

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Roadapple said:
If Rolex sells every watch they make now why would they go to the added expense of developing another watch?
Wow! If that kind of thinking were to be common we would still be living in mud huts looking at sundials. Just because you sell what you have does not mean that there is no need to pursue another model.

Besides they have developed many new watches and patents on watch inovations over the years they certainly are not a stagnant company. Perhaps the demand is not there. I don't know but there are hundreds of other diving watches and others on the market since Rolex started. There must be demand for other products besides theirs.
Vince.
 

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vjb.knife said:
I don't think Rolex will make a Ti watch either because I don't think they will make a large watch like the GP Seahawk II Pro. I love my Seadweller and Sub as well and am only interested in Diving watches. So for me Gold and Platinum are not applicable materials as far as I am concerned in a diving watch.

Rolex's 904L stainless is fine although not significantly different from 316L and not hardenable as they are both Austenitic steels. So it is not harder than some of the available Ti alloys, which can be made to reach 50 Rc, and are more corrosion resistant and as for appearance can be polished to the same high gloss that Stainless can.

Vince
Titanium alloys will not shine up as much as SS will. Also, it is much darker. We used it in the 80s in the circuit board business in the form of nuts and bolts. It is extremely acid resistant. The use of it as a jewelery metal is fairly new AFAIK. Highly polished it does show scratches very nicely. It is considered more of a fade metal IMHO and I cannot see why Rolex would want to use it for their watches. Rolex has a long history of using precious metals which are actually a majority of their sales. =) maverick
 

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maverick said:
Titanium alloys will not shine up as much as SS will. Also, it is much darker. We used it in the 80s in the circuit board business in the form of nuts and bolts. It is extremely acid resistant. The use of it as a jewelery metal is fairly new AFAIK. Highly polished it does show scratches very nicely. It is considered more of a fade metal IMHO and I cannot see why Rolex would want to use it for their watches. Rolex has a long history of using precious metals which are actually a majority of their sales. =) maverick
It does not really matter to me if Rolex makes a watch from TI or noy because I already have the only Rolexes (and Tudor) that I am ever likely to buy.



But the statement that Ti can not be polished as much as SS is not the case. It can be brought up to near mirror polish if you want it that way depending on the alloy. The polished portions of my Titanium GP Seahawk Pro are every bit as bright as those on the Seadweller or Sub. But in reality polished surfaces on a diving watch are not all that desirable so for me as a diver it is a mute point.


Vince
 

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vjb.knife said:
It does not really matter to me if Rolex makes a watch from TI or noy because I already have the only Rolexes (and Tudor) that I am ever likely to buy.



But the statement that Ti can not be polished as much as SS is not the case. It can be brought up to near mirror polish if you want it that way depending on the alloy. The polished portions of my Titanium GP Seahawk Pro are every bit as bright as those on the Seadweller or Sub. But in reality polished surfaces on a diving watch are not all that desirable so for me as a diver it is a mute point.


Vince
It is a darker metal than SS, wg, or plat and thus will never shine like they do. It will shine, but has a dark appearance and does show scratches easily. It may be possible to put alloys in it to lighten it up but I have never seen it done. In jewelery stores titanium is easy to spot. Titanium is soft in it's pure form so alloys are already in it by the time a consumer sees it. If you want a watch made of industrial metal I could care less. Just do not expect Rolex to make any. Since you state you will not buy another Rolex what is your purpose for posting? You have argued or disagreed with every post you responded to in this thread. I really makes me wonder why I bother to visit this forum anymore. This Rolex was on the wrist of someone who had a motorcycle accident while wearing it. It was still running and still is AFAIK. It was re-cased with a new bracelet. Do you see a need for a more substantial metal then SS.? LOL =) maverick

 

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Chris Hoffman said:
Mav, you post because you are a purist and you believe in the brand. Besides, trolls like that will fade,eventually, and we will still be here to talk about ours...
So for posting information on materials pros and cons and some ideas on the applicability of them in certain watch applications, I am a troll? Great, you purist snobs can have your forum and wollow in the stagnant beliefs that you have because no one should ever present an opposing viewpoint. Besides what would I know about dive watch applications. I was only a commercial diver for about ten years and have owned only four Rolexes since 1983. Then I got an Engineering degree and have only worked in machine shop operations and material science for the last ten years. But I suppose that I don't think that Rolex is the end all to beat all in every catagory. Sorry for fouling up YOUR forum with information that you don't quite agree with.

Cheers, Vince
 

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maverick said:
I am sorry you fouled it up also. If you don't want to be labeled a troll, don't act like one. It's only a watch and you are the one disagreeing with every post. You did not answer my question of why you are even posting since Rolex is not your type of watch and you have stated you will buy no more. O| maverick

I did not say that Rolex is not my type of watch, you only assumed that. I own the SD and the Tudor sub in the pictures. I said I would probably not get another because those are so well suited to my needs and desires. Ihave owned two others in the past and liked them as well. I don't believe I disagreed with much in these posts other than the statements about the toughness and ability to polish titanium. The SD is still the most proven diving watch in history due to it's use by COMEX in their saturation work. I said that I don't think Rolex will make a Sub or SD out of Ti because with the smaller size of these watches it is not necessary to save weight. I also atated that there is nothing wrong with Stainless but I feel that Ti has certain advantages. Your limited knowledge of metalurgy is evident in you statements about Titanium.
1. fact - It can be brought to a bright polish like chrome mirror finish - there are numerous examples on the internet if you take the time to look.
2. fact - 904L and 316L SS are extremely similar and they can not be hardened because the are Austenitic steels. Go look it up.
3. fact - Titanium (certain alloys, not pure Ti) can be hardened to 48 on the Rockwell C scale which is far more scratch resistant than the any Austenitic SS can ever be made.
4. Ti and most of it's alloys are completely non magnetic unlike any iron containing material such as steel including 904L which still has a magnetic signature.

I am the one banging my head against the wall here because of your lack of metals knowledge lack of willingness to listen to anyone whose opinion different or knowledge is beyond yours on a particular subject. I am not a troll, just trying to pass on a little bit of experience and knowledge to present a counterpoint to what was said, but I will refrain from posting here again to make you happy and to save my self from having to explain technology to a troglodyte.

Cheers, Vince
 

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vjb.knife said:
I did not say that Rolex is not my type of watch, you only assumed that I own the SD and the Tudor sub in the pictures. I said I would probably not get another because those are so well suited to my needs and desires. Ihave owned two others in the past and liked them as well. I don't believe I disagreed with much in these posts other than the statements about the toughness and ability to polish titanium. The SD is still the most proven diving watch in history due to it's use by COMEX in their saturation work. I said that I don't think Rolex will make a Sub or SD out of Ti because with the smaller size of these watches it is not necessary to save weight. I also atated that there is nothing wrong with Stainless but I feel that Ti has certain advantages. Your limited knowledge of metalurgy is evident in you statements about Titanium.
1. fact - It can be brought to a bright polish like chrome mirror finish - there are numerous examples on the internet if you take the time to look.
2. fact - 904L and 316L SS are extremely similar and they can not be hardened because the are Austenitic steels. Go look it up.
3. fact - Titanium (certain alloys, not pure Ti) can be hardened to 48 on the Rockwell C scale which is far more scratch resistant than the any Austenitic SS can ever be made.
4. Ti and most of it's alloys are completely non magnetic unlike any iron containing material such as steel including 904L which still has a magnetic signature.

I am the one banging my head against the wall here because of your lack of metals knowledge lack of willingness to listen to anyone whose opinion different or knowledge is beyond yours on a particular subject. I am not a troll, just trying to pass on a little bit of experience and knowledge to present a counterpoint to what was said, but I will refrain from posting here again to make you happy and to save my self from having to explain technology to a troglodyte.

Cheers, Vince
I'd love a Ti Sea-dweller. My dream watch, and Ti has been used in dive watches for roughly the past 30 yrs. or more. Perfect salt water metal unlike SS. Can be treated, hardened, etc to fit the application. Also reduces weight and increases strength, which is also more suitable for diving. Might not make sense in a dress watch but definitely makes sense in a diver. If Rolex Made a Ti Sea-dweller, I wouldn't have a need for any other watch.

Kev
 

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vjb.knife said:
So for posting information on materials pros and cons and some ideas on the applicability of them in certain watch applications, I am a troll? Great, you purist snobs can have your forum and wollow in the stagnant beliefs that you have because no one should ever present an opposing viewpoint. Besides what would I know about dive watch applications. I was only a commercial diver for about ten years and have owned only four Rolexes since 1983. Then I got an Engineering degree and have only worked in machine shop operations and material science for the last ten years. But I suppose that I don't think that Rolex is the end all to beat all in every catagory. Sorry for fouling up YOUR forum with information that you don't quite agree with.

Cheers, Vince
No, post all the trivial metallurgy info you want. Usually posters that ask "Why doesnt Rolex...blah blah" are usually trolling. My opinion.
Looking back through, I see that you proclaim your love for the SD, and that is great. I would say that forcing the idea of making a "titanium" Rolex to the majority of posters here probably wont fly. How about I jump over on the Seiko forum and tell them to make an aluminum watch out of recycled beer cans and the benefits of it and see how many folk buy into it. Doesn't really make sense does it?
If you love your SD, post some pics and lets talk about it in comparison to others that you have owned, etc.
Lets move on.
 

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Your right Chris, I have never heard of a Rolex case not being tough enough for any diving or failing underwater but Rolex should make a titanium model for just for a few who think they know more than Rolex engineers, watchmakers, planners, management, etc. COMEX did not seem to mind SS but what do they know. LOL B-) =) maverick
 

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I don,t know squat about the types of metals and what they are good for.
Was a little curious about the beer can Seiko. If Miller cans were used, would it "taste great", or be "less filling"?:think:
 

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Gentlemen - I think calling Vince's contribution 'crap' & describing him as a 'know it all troll' is uncalled for. He has frequented this site because he obviously appreciates watches & owns Rolex(s). As a former pro diver & now a metallurgist, he is entitled to his opinions which are 'educated'. I read nothing in what he said which seemed to be inflammatory or edgy - he simply stated his opinion - which he is always entitled to & which, in his case, was backed by some substance and experience. I am aware that people from time to time come on this Rolex forum just to have a dig & start a flame war. But I didn't sense this from Vince. The relative merits of Titanium for a watch case aside, I think you gave him a hard time without cause.

On the Dive watch forum he wrote this a little while ago in a comparison with other watches: If I could only own one watch it [SEAL] would not be a contender, where the Kobold Phantom would be a top contender along with the Breitling Seawolf but the Seadweller would probably win.I don't think it [SEAL] is quite in the same class with the SD. There really is no other watch in that class, it is more proven over a longer time and under tougher conditions than any watch not to mention being a classic recognizable style.

Clearly Vince WAS NOT OUT TO DISS Rolex!

grace

si
 
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