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Today's Essay Question- Will the current PO become in future like the Rolex Sub 5513 is now?

8695 Views 105 Replies 38 Participants Last post by  GaryF, 
teeritz
So, yep, I got to thinking again. Basel 2011 has shown us where the Planet Ocean is headed in the next few years. Does this mean that we'll be seeing the current Cal 2500-powered Planet Ocean reach a similar status among collectors as the Rolex Submariner 5512/5513/1680 models of the '60s, '70s and Eighties?
Or will the PO be regarded as Omega's equivalent of the Sub non-COSC 14060, a great watch in its own right, but one that doesn't appear to have the same mythical status as the other discontinued Subs?
Remember that the current Planet O may seem inferior, to some folks, to the models of the future that will have in-house movements, Liquid Metal bezels and screws in bracelets, etc. The new models have closed the loops on the sixes and nines of the dial which, to me, begins to distance the PO from the '60s SM300 DNA, but that's probably another thread, I'm sure.
Personally, I love my PO just the way it is. I'm pretty sure that Billy Joel even wrote a song about the Planet Ocean once.

"Don't go changin',
To try to please me..."

Discuss.
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Surfmonkey
But really, now iconic is the Sub with the general public? Are you more likely to have people say "Cool sub!" or have people say "Nice watch. Is that a Rolex?" Or even more importantly, isn't it true that the VAST majority of people don't even notice that you're wearing a watch, let alone what brand or model it is?

I mean, I just have to wonder what we mean when we say iconic? In general we're so close to this subject that it's a little difficult to know for sure what "regular" people think about "iconic" watches.
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DaBaeker
Chris Hughes said:
I mean, I just have to wonder what we mean when we say iconic? In general we're so close to this subject that it's a little difficult to know for sure what "regular" people think about "iconic" watches.
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I think its safe to assume that the following watches are 20th century icons of horology by both watch buffs and designers, style mavens and the general interested public alike:

1-rolex (any oyster) but mostly the sub

2-Omega Speedmaster

3-Cartier Tank

4-Breitling Navitimer

5-IWC portuguese

6-Im sure SOME Patek as well

7-others but this is a basic list.

Its as elementary as saying a Harly pan-head and Triumph Bonneville are iconic 20th c motorcycles.

And in wrist=watches you could determine 'iconic' by how many imitation tanks, subs and chronos and other look-alikes are on millions of wrists
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tigerpac
I'm scared to buy anything 2500 based now, don't see that changing as they age and hit the vintage status!
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Surfmonkey
DaBaeker said:
I think its safe to assume that the following watches are 20th century icons of horology by both watch buffs and designers, style mavens and the general interested public alike:
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With the general public I wonder if the list doesn't really end after item #2. I mean, I think we might be hard pressed to find a very big percentage of people who would recognize most of the other watches. In fact, I wonder if Movado might not be more "iconic" in the minds of many than any of the watches on the list.

Just thinking out loud here. Not trying to start a conflict or anything...
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DaBaeker
Chris Hughes said:
With the general public I wonder if the list doesn't really end after item #2. I mean, I think we might be hard pressed to find a very big percentage of people who would recognize most of the other watches. In fact, I wonder if Movado might not be more "iconic" in the minds of many than any of the watches on the list.

Just thinking out loud here. Not trying to start a conflict or anything...
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Okay-scratch IWC, Breitling and PP and add Movado Museum watch for pedestrian assumptions but the cartier tank (arguably the very first wrist watch ever) is entitled to iconic status as I can't even count the number of imitations I see on [mostly] women every week.
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Surfmonkey
DaBaeker said:
Okay-scratch IWC, Breitling and PP and add Movado Museum watch but the cartier tank (arguably the very first wrist watch ever) is entitled to iconic status as I can't even count the number of imitations I see on [mostly] women every week.
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Yeah, you're right. I said #2 but I meant #3. The Cartier is iconic. No question.
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Mathew J
georges zaslavsky said:
I don't really think the 2500 powered po will be mythical or like the 5513 in the future, for these reasons:
-problems of sudden stoppage with the 2500 movement
-poor resale value of eta based Omegas
-lacks of brand recognition
The only Omega divewatches that are highly aftersought at Omega and that constantly rise in value are the vintage divers not the modern ones.
I am thinking as well than the 8500 and 9300 generation POs are the ones that will see their value skyrocketing.
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The new models are already reported to be very expensive, doubt we will see them go to astronomical heights in my lifetime but then again who knows....
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Mathew J
tigerpac said:
I'm scared to buy anything 2500 based now, don't see that changing as they age and hit the vintage status!
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why? plenty of 2500 owners have nothing but great experiences. Regardless doesn't matter as pretty soon 2500s won't even be an option.
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Broleo
still the constellation range is the hot seller from where I stay. If one to order a PO (let alone the Orange ones) it will take weeks to a month. The ADs in my place usually stock to the brim with full constellation range, few pieces of bonds and speedy; and if you are lucky, might catch a PO there about.

cheers

Marendra said:
I can see your point (and Desmond's) but I'm not sure that the PO itself is popular in Asia due to its size, so I'm still struggling with understanding how the two are strongly linked. I think that the brand's popularity in the western countries (where it is popular) will determine whether it obtains long term status or becomes a footnote in future editions of 'A Journey Through Time'.

In the past I have spent years working in Asia and, although I wasn't actively looking for a PO at the time, I don't ever recall seeing one at an AD... I was looking for the Bond GMT (same size as the PO42) and it wasn't anywhere... Even the Boutiques in existence at the time typically needed to order in. I ended up picking one up on a business trip to America, where most ADs had one in stock.

Can anyone living in Asia right now confirm whether my impression is still accurate (or whether my memory is just 'selective'....)
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GaryF
M4tt said:
That's odd, I was just reading the same thing about the timeless 'Dunhill Patent Billiard' in Pipe Smoker's weekly for 1952.


Now, I'm pretty certain that you may consider the comparison facile, but the fact is that pipes are beautiful, tactile objects in their own right. A good pipe was, and is, an expensive high quality item. However, with the increasing irrelevance of smoking and pressures of fashion I cannot honestly remember seeing one anywhere in the last decade at least.

As it stands, watches are not yet as irrelevant as pipes, but I do think that the ubiquity of perfect timekeeping in small 'convergence devices' such as smartphones points the way to a future in which improvements in HCI give us near instant access to information. As soon as telling the time is quicker by technology is faster than flicking your wrist to glance at your watch, the watch will begin to look as much an anachronistic affectation as a pipe does. For many, it already does.

Don't even talk to me about lighters...
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I'm not sure I agree. As a method of telling the time, yes, watches are no longer a necessity for many, but a great deal more ubiquity will have to be overcome than was the case for the pipe in order for them to go the same way.
The watch industry has already cottoned on to the fact that it must sell watches as something other than the purely time telling devices they once were. Wouldn't it be funny (and not unlikely) if the watches to suffer most in this brave new age were the cheap quartz pieces that nearly killed the the mechanical watch industry?
One other thing that the watch has over the pipe is that no one has yet made it illegal to look at one's wrist in a public place.:-d The pipe became truly anachronistic, rather than just unfashionable, when it became virtually impossible to use.
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Mathew J
M4tt said:
That's odd, I was just reading the same thing about the timeless 'Dunhill Patent Billiard' in Pipe Smoker's weekly for 1952.


Now, I'm pretty certain that you may consider the comparison facile, but the fact is that pipes are beautiful, tactile objects in their own right. A good pipe was, and is, an expensive high quality item. However, with the increasing irrelevance of smoking and pressures of fashion I cannot honestly remember seeing one anywhere in the last decade at least.

As it stands, watches are not yet as irrelevant as pipes, but I do think that the ubiquity of perfect timekeeping in small 'convergence devices' such as smartphones points the way to a future in which improvements in HCI give us near instant access to information. As soon as telling the time is quicker by technology is faster than flicking your wrist to glance at your watch, the watch will begin to look as much an anachronistic affectation as a pipe does. For many, it already does.

Don't even talk to me about lighters...
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I just wanted to say nice pipe....love those dunhills.

Agree with everything you said, even though they have been driven to the point of extinction high end lighters and expesive pipes are still just that, expensive, just sold in fewer numbers.
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S
Retina display of time, Atomic clock standard, at a thought. Not that everyone will enjoy having surgery for the effect, but non surgical glasses could achieve the same thing. You don't have to look ANYWHERE on ANY item to see the time and date, and probably any other information you are looking for.

Then the watch, IMO, will be an old fashioned accessory.

I can say that being in the Military, a watch is a 100% absolute necessity for everyone. You have to be on time, and clocks are not everywhere, and there are MANY places in the Military where you can't bring a cell phone or computer, and some watches with radios (GPS and Atomic receivers) and internal memory are not permitted either!

P.S. As for this discussion, I technically don't know what a 5513 is outside of being a Rolex Dive watch. I would not know one if I saw one. Of course, it would be easy to find out, but I don't care very much about dive watches, so this conversation is already beyond me. :)
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M4tt
Retina display of time,
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I'm pretty certain that the technology to do that will be a little late give that we cracked silicon to neuron interfaces about three years ago and can now use rats' brains to control robots:

YouTube - Rat Brain Robot

Don't even get me started about Kevin Warwick...

In short, neurally initiated on demand timechecks in the 400ms window look to be just around the corner...
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GaryF
SpringDriven said:
Retina display of time, Atomic clock standard, at a thought. Not that everyone will enjoy having surgery for the effect, but non surgical glasses could achieve the same thing. You don't have to look ANYWHERE on ANY item to see the time and date, and probably any other information you are looking for.

Then the watch, IMO, will be an old fashioned accessory.

I can say that being in the Military, a watch is a 100% absolute necessity for everyone. You have to be on time, and clocks are not everywhere, and there are MANY places in the Military where you can't bring a cell phone or computer, and some watches with radios (GPS and Atomic receivers) and internal memory are not permitted either!

P.S. As for this discussion, I technically don't know what a 5513 is outside of being a Rolex Dive watch. I would not know one if I saw one. Of course, it would be easy to find out, but I don't care very much about dive watches, so this conversation is already beyond me. :)
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Looking forward to the "Can my retina pull off this mod'?" threads.:-d
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M4tt
Looking forward to the "Can my retina pull off this mod'?" threads.:-d
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Given the size of current watches I suspect it's more likely to be 'can this mod pull off my retina!'
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S
That is why I bought it up. I also have read about bypassing the eyes, and inputing video directly to the brain. Blind people can see again...

Anyways, it was the first thing that popped up in my head that would kill a watch for sure.

3D Television sets will be mainstream in a few years, and more then likely most will require glasses, once people get used to wearing goggles most of the day...
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M4tt
once people get used to wearing goggles most of the day...
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I agree that this is probably the direction that augmentsed reality will take for a while. More to the point, those who reject any sort of neocortex interface for ethical, religious or aesthetic reasons will always need a prosthetic and so I can see this direction not drying up for a while. I just think that now that we are finally getting a grip on direct interaction with the informational structures it seems redundant to start fiddling directly with the mechanics of the eye. Why play with this when you will have complete freedom to sample and modulate the structure of the information up and down stream of this.
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teeritz
M4tt said:
...Don't even talk to me about lighters...
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Ahh, lighters.
I've lost count of how many Zippos I have, but this one's a favourite.


And then there were the Ronsons.


Like the old ads used to say; "Damn fine machinery".


I used to feel like Trevor Howard, circa 1958, whenever I used them.

According to the Ronson repair guy in Glendale, California, this one's pretty rare.


I quit smoking not so long ago, this time for good, since I've had a few tries, but the lighters I just can't seem to get rid of.


Lately, though, I've been busy collecting a few of these;

An Olympia SM2 from about 1951. The Cold War's just begun where my head's at.


A Smith-Corona Sterling from 1945


A Royal Quiet De Luxe from around 1946. This one's got a very "British Foreign Office" vibe.


A Smith-Corona Standard from circa 1937, just perfect for taking down Al Capone's statement down at the Chicago PD.


So yeah, teeritz takes another giant leap backwards.
I realise this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but what's a thread without a few pictures?

We now return you to the scheduled thread topic.
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Dixan
teeritz said:
I quit smoking not so long ago, this time for good, since I've had a few tries, but the lighters I just can't seem to get rid of.
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Hmmm... Guess who just quit smoking for good too, and not that long ago? Listen, just stay in your hemisphere, buddy. ;-) I have a few old Zippos too. My favorite is an old Alfa Romeo badged one. Actually, it's the replacement for the original that I gave to an Italian friend a long time ago when I studied on the Cote D'Azur. He and his father restored and collected old Alfas, so I had to give it to him. Anyway, some of your lighters are really nice! You know, for how much most Chinese men smoke, they just don't appreciate a nice lighter. I've given a few as gifts to clients, and have been met with utter disinterest. Oh well.

teeritz said:
We now return you to the scheduled thread topic.
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|>
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teeritz
GaryF said:
Looking forward to the "Can my retina pull off this mod'?" threads.:-d
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Gee, guys, the idea of having to get my eyes serviced every 3-5 years (unless they're Co-Axial) positively sends a chill down my spine. Swatch Group would probably leave scratches on the side of my nose.

DaBaeker said:
agree. Think about it. What mechanical watch can be invented or designed for the mass-market (like the sub/sm300/connie/etc) that will accomplish anythinf near;y quite so spectacular as ANY of those [plus others] acheived? Could any company make the 'best mass-market' dive watch? already done. most accurate mass-market? Connie (564)anybody Longines? IWC,PP etc, ect.Most iconic movie watch? Now that saturation marketing and branding dominates I seriously doubt any watch would be taken seriously the way Sean Connery made the Sub famous. Btands are lucky if they can connect a character to a particular watch for a spell let alone hoping for mythis status. (here i'm thinking that dude that wears a Lum-tec or special ops watch in burn notice? Even the 'bond' branding is a stretch for many (not all, i know) And first watch on Moon? Well-perhaps the first watch worn by a human on Mars might have a shot at mythic but I'd bet it'll be some manifestation of the speedy anyhow.

Sadly-the last 'mythic' mechanical watch may be the one that is the last high-quality watch still able to be purchased by the middle classes that isnt a boring mass-produced yawn

A better question is what, if anything is left for ANY mechanical watch to accomplish that would make it genuinely (not falsely) iconic?
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You're right, DaB. Like movies, songs, and a great deal of other pop culture, it's all been done before. The only thing that can be done differently is the delivery. This doesn't really apply to watches so much as it does to movies. When I first saw "Pulp Fiction", I couldn't believe how derivative it was of so many classic (and obscure B grade) 1940s film noirs (that nobody watches these days because they're in something called 'black & white'), but I tip my hat to Tarantino for putting his own spin on it. Don't know if I'd enjoy "Pulp Fiction" any more if I watched it again now. I'll have to give it a shot sometime.

Chris Hughes said:
But really, now iconic is the Sub with the general public? Are you more likely to have people say "Cool sub!" or have people say "Nice watch. Is that a Rolex?" Or even more importantly, isn't it true that the VAST majority of people don't even notice that you're wearing a watch, let alone what brand or model it is?

I mean, I just have to wonder what we mean when we say iconic? In general we're so close to this subject that it's a little difficult to know for sure what "regular" people think about "iconic" watches.
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But Chris, my question was not designed for regular people because they could care less about a 5513. Regular people buy the latest Submariner. A WIS buys a 5513...if he/she is into vintage, that is.

DaBaeker said:
I think its safe to assume that the following watches are 20th century icons of horology by both watch buffs and designers, style mavens and the general interested public alike:

1-rolex (any oyster) but mostly the sub

2-Omega Speedmaster

3-Cartier Tank

4-Breitling Navitimer

5-IWC portuguese

6-Im sure SOME Patek as well

7-others but this is a basic list.

Its as elementary as saying a Harly pan-head and Triumph Bonneville are iconic 20th c motorcycles.

And in wrist=watches you could determine 'iconic' by how many imitation tanks, subs and chronos and other look-alikes are on millions of wrists
Click to expand...
Chris Hughes said:
With the general public I wonder if the list doesn't really end after item #2. I mean, I think we might be hard pressed to find a very big percentage of people who would recognize most of the other watches. In fact, I wonder if Movado might not be more "iconic" in the minds of many than any of the watches on the list.

Just thinking out loud here. Not trying to start a conflict or anything...
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That list of the Top 5 is often cited by men's magazines. They even throw in the Heuer Monaco. As for the Movado Museum watch, it looks like it belongs in a late '60s sci-fi. The kind of watch Jane Fonda should have worn in "Barbarella".
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