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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

I recently picked up a Bagelsport Dive watch with a DG2813 movement, and I am having trouble getting the stem out. I am almost 100% certain that I am pressing on the stem release button, (the little button with the dimple in it just above and right next to the stem) but it just won't release the stem. The stem release button is pushing in just fine, and goes down to the point where its' top is flush with the surrounding metal. As this is only the second mechanical watch that I have tried to disassemble (the first was an Invicta 8926OB with the NH35A movement, which released the stem quite easily) I was wondering if there are any tips or tricks for getting this one out. I don't want to break anything if I can avoid it.

FYI, I have the hands set to 12:00pm (noon), and the stem is all the way out in the winding position when I am trying to release the stem.

Any tips or suggestions you could give would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
 

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Hi All,

I recently picked up a Bagelsport Dive watch with a DG2813 movement, and I am having trouble getting the stem out. I am almost 100% certain that I am pressing on the stem release button, (the little button with the dimple in it just above and right next to the stem) but it just won't release the stem. The stem release button is pushing in just fine, and goes down to the point where its' top is flush with the surrounding metal. As this is only the second mechanical watch that I have tried to disassemble (the first was an Invicta 8926OB with the NH35A movement, which released the stem quite easily) I was wondering if there are any tips or tricks for getting this one out. I don't want to break anything if I can avoid it.

FYI, I have the hands set to 12:00pm (noon), and the stem is all the way out in the winding position when I am trying to release the stem.

Any tips or suggestions you could give would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Hey LifeTrekker - If you search online for topics related to the DG2813, specifically the crown stem, you'll see there are other people who've had issues with that calibre, including me. In my case, I had one where the stem came out just fine, but once removed, I wasn't able to get it all the way back in.

I took it to my watchmaker. Between him and his mentor (and I'm paraphrasing here), it was determined that there was a spring inside the movement that moved out of place (or something), and after two months of fiddling with it (my words), they gave up, and I bought a new movement. This time, I let my watchmaker assemble the mod for me, but I was there as he was doing it, talking with him as he went.

As he explained it to me, with many movements, getting the stem out or back in can rely on having the crown in the correct position first, but that position isn't the same for all calibres. For some, it's winding position, for others, it's date or time-setting. What was borderline shocking to me was that there doesn't seem to be any definitive online reference for this info, so sometimes knowing the correct position comes down to trial and error, or word of mouth.

As such, my recommendation would be to start with the crown all the way in, and GENTLY try to remove it while depressing the stem release. If that doesn't work, let the release go, pull the crown out to the next position, and try again. If that doesn't work, try the last position.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks for the suggestions. I tried them as described, and unfortunately I still can't get the stem to release. Are there any other ideas on how to get a stem to release on one of these movements? As I am planning on using this watch as the base for a mod, I'm really kinda stuck until I can get the stem out.

Another thought I had was to remove the crown from the stem while it is still in the case. Is this even possible? I was thinking that if I could remove the crown, then I could still get the movement out of the case, but I'm not sure how the crown attaches to the stem.

Thanks for your input.
 

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Hey trekker. Just to be sure...the stem removal position for the DG is in winding position, which is the same as crown pulled out, but not as far as date set or time set. Try (just for grins) gently rolling the stem clockwise (if looking directly at the crown) as you pull out. Sometimes this relieves tension on the keyless works and allows the stem to slide.

Don't get frustrated and push the detente too far into the movement. This will bust the keyless works (the transmission).
Last trick is exactly what you hypothesized. If you can get a very small pair of pliers (needle nose) you can probably grip part of the stem from inside one the movement holder is pulled out. Be very careful not to apply pressure in any direction as stems are fragile and once they are bent...its bent. Once you have ahold of it, you can spin the crown free in a counterclockwise direction. Crowns screw on, but you have to keep the stem from spinning.

For the record, this is probably the safest way to mod a DG equipped watch. Removing the stem is a bit of a gamble every time. Sometimes as doc said, you'll not get back in. Good luck!
 

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Thanks for the suggestions. I tried them as described, and unfortunately I still can't get the stem to release. Are there any other ideas on how to get a stem to release on one of these movements? As I am planning on using this watch as the base for a mod, I'm really kinda stuck until I can get the stem out.

Another thought I had was to remove the crown from the stem while it is still in the case. Is this even possible? I was thinking that if I could remove the crown, then I could still get the movement out of the case, but I'm not sure how the crown attaches to the stem.

Thanks for your input.
Let's first dispense with the "potentially obvious to the point of being insulting" quesiton. How certain are you you're actually pressing the right spot to relase the stem? Have you checked YouTube or otherwise made sure you know where to press? That movement is a Miyota 8215 clone, so I imagine the release is identical, if that helps you in your search.

Assuming you've done that (and sorry if the question was insulting), I think removing the crown from the stem sounds risky. You may not be able to get it re-attached effectively, or you might inadvertently bond it with the case tube when you do. You might bend or break the stem trying to get it threaded into the case tube and the movement seated inside the case. It is a tight space.

If it were me, I'd take it to my watchmaker to figure out. In my case, I just had to buy a new movement after my guys couldn't get the original movement sorted. With the second movement, I didn't screw around, since by then I knew that calibre has stem issues. I just took it in and let them put the mod together for me.

The stem is supposed to release, if yours doesn't, no matter what, it may be you've got a bum movement. Not to be cavalier about it, but those movements are $30. At a certain point, the time you spend futzing around with it is more valuable than the cost of buying a new one.

My guy does mod work, and his service rates are very reasonable. I don't have his email in front of me at the moment, but I can post it later if you want it. If you send it to him, he may be able to get it sorted, and complete the mod for you very inexpensively.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
No, the question is not insulting. It is certainly reasonable to ask. But the answer is yes, I have reviewed several videos and articles on both the DG2813 as well as the Miyota 8215, and I am certain I am pressing on the correct spot. Either that, or all the videos and articles are wrong, which I don't think is likely.

The thought had occurred to me that I received a bum movement. For $34 including shipping for the whole watch, I guess that is to be expected from time to time. I may risk purchasing another one of these Bagelsports since they are so inexpensive to begin with. It seems unlikely to me that I would receive two in a row with bum movements in which the stem release won't work. (Or maybe I will. Who knows.)

Or maybe I should just buy another Invicta 8926OB with the Seiko made NH35A movement. By all accounts, (and my own personal experience) it is a better quality watch and a fine base for modding in its own right. I was just hoping that this one would work out as I personally like the case style a little better than the Invicta, (less dial depth) and thought it might be a nice base for a mod. Oh well, live and learn I guess.

If you would like to send me the email address of your watch maker friend, I would appreciate it. I would like to send him an email to see what he would charge to build the mod I had in mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hey trekker. Just to be sure...the stem removal position for the DG is in winding position, which is the same as crown pulled out, but not as far as date set or time set. Try (just for grins) gently rolling the stem clockwise (if looking directly at the crown) as you pull out. Sometimes this relieves tension on the keyless works and allows the stem to slide.

Don't get frustrated and push the detente too far into the movement. This will bust the keyless works (the transmission).
Last trick is exactly what you hypothesized. If you can get a very small pair of pliers (needle nose) you can probably grip part of the stem from inside one the movement holder is pulled out. Be very careful not to apply pressure in any direction as stems are fragile and once they are bent...its bent. Once you have ahold of it, you can spin the crown free in a counterclockwise direction. Crowns screw on, but you have to keep the stem from spinning.

For the record, this is probably the safest way to mod a DG equipped watch. Removing the stem is a bit of a gamble every time. Sometimes as doc said, you'll not get back in. Good luck!
Hey Sonic, thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately, they didn't work either.

I tried pushing in the stem release button while in the winding position and turning the crown clockwise (the same direction as winding the watch) while trying to gently remove the stem, and it still wouldn't release.

Next I tried unscrewing the crown. I was able to get a small pair of needle nose pliars on the stem inside the case, but I couldn't get a good enough grip on it to keep it from spinning. I wish I had a tiny pair of Vice Grips to grab it with. (Do they even make such a thing?)

I may have another pair of needle nose pliars that I can try to see if I can get a better grip on it. If that doesn't work, I may just order a new DG2813 from Esslinger and cut the stem to get the movement out. Then I should be able to get a good enough grip on what's left of the stem to get the crown off.

If the stem release won't work, and I can't get the crown unscrewed, I really don't see another alternative. If anyone has any other ideas before I do this, I'm all ears. I hate to destroy the movement in this process, but as they say, you have to break a few eggs in order to make an omelet. If it comes to that, at least this is a relatively cheap egg.
 

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Sounds like a bum movement, but if you're anywhere near as stubborn as I am, you want to have a watchmaker try one last time before giving up.

I'll post my guy's email when in get into the office soon. If it helps, the second DG I bought was new from Esslinger, and was about $30. You may find another, or the Miyota 8215 on eBay for less, but I tend to wonder about the reliability of uncased movements purchased from sources who don't necessarily make a business that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I had a thought about removing the crown. Do the manufacturers use Loctite or some other type of thread locker when they screw the crown onto the stem? If so, I was thinking about heating the crown with a micro torch before I try to unscrew it again. The problem I see is getting a good hold on the crown when it is hot. Has anyone else ever tried something like this?
 

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I had a thought about removing the crown. Do the manufacturers use Loctite or some other type of thread locker when they screw the crown onto the stem? If so, I was thinking about heating the crown with a micro torch before I try to unscrew it again. The problem I see is getting a good hold on the crown when it is hot. Has anyone else ever tried something like this?
I can't say for certain how the manufacturer might have done it, but I do know that in the case of the mod I had put together, my watchmaker married a crown from another watch to the stem that came with the movement using some sort of bonding agent, maybe Loctite. When we thought the crown stem was too long, and would need to be cut down, he mentioned using some sort of solvent to detach them.

I can't fathom a good reason for putting Loctite on a threaded crown or case tube. If they did, I have no idea if heating it would work as well as using a solvent, without causing damage to components or fingers.

If you decide to stop playing MacGuyver, put down the torch, admit defeat, and let a watchmaker take over, talk to my guy Andy at Neighborhood Watch Repair in Philly - [email protected]. :)

Not that I don't admire the persistence and creativity you're showing here. Believe me, I do. But none of us is getting any younger. Sometimes we just need to admit when a gizmo has gotten the better of us. It may be time to bin it and move onto the next one.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Well, I finally got the movement out of the case. I was never able to get the stem release to work, but I was finally able to get the crown unscrewed from the stem.

I ended up having to buy a new small set of needle nose pliers. I bought some pretty short ones that allowed me to get a really good grip on the stem inside the case. It turned out that all of the needle nose pliers I had on hand were a little too worn out and just wouldn't allow me to get a good enough grip on the stem to keep it from turning when I tried to unscrew the crown.

I've put the watch back together as is for now. And now I'm good to go to order a new dial and hands so I can do a proper mod on this watch.

Thanks to everyone who offered tips and advice to help me solve this problem. I really appreciate it.
 
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I wish to share a small success with dg2813 crown stem not going all the way back in. I used a sharp, household needle like I'm picking a lock. I gently poked it into the crown stem hole. I also tried physically turning the small gear next to the release button (this wasn't turning anymore using the crown). Not sure what I did right, but when I tried inserting the crown stem back in, something was different. It hesitated. I gently wriggled it and turned it and it went "click" and slid into the next position. It all worked after that.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Wow! Is this ever from the "Way Back" machine. This was almost 3 years ago now, and just at the beginning of my WUS journey. This was my very first watch mod, and now I'm modding cases, regulating movements, and resetting ETA keyless works. How time flies!

And to see that it was Doc that was helping out the "newb" is really cool. I had no idea who Docvail was at the time, and now I own two of his watches. Thanks Chris for helping me out when I was totally new to this great hobby/obsession of ours.

And back to the subject of this thread, I would say that unscrewing the crown from the stem is sometimes still the best way to go with this movement. And after resetting the keyless works on several ETA 2824-2s and its Chinese clones, I would now include it in this category as well.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I wish to share a small success with dg2813 crown stem not going all the way back in. I used a sharp, household needle like I'm picking a lock. I gently poked it into the crown stem hole. I also tried physically turning the small gear next to the release button (this wasn't turning anymore using the crown). Not sure what I did right, but when I tried inserting the crown stem back in, something was different. It hesitated. I gently wriggled it and turned it and it went "click" and slid into the next position. It all worked after that.
I'm glad you were able to get the stem back in your DG2813 and have it all working again.

Oh, and welcome to WUS and our great little corner of Affordables. I hope your stay turns out to be as great as mine has been.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

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Much apprectiated! This seemed to be the only thread related to this issue.



I'm glad you were able to get the stem back in your DG2813 and have it all working again.

Oh, and welcome to WUS and our great little corner of Affordables. I hope your stay turns out to be as great as mine has been.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

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For the record;

Stem goes out in time-set position.
Push small button below and it goes out without any resistance.
Upon putting it back you hear a fain 'click' and it's good to go.
 

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So, just to keep this old thread kicking for a couple more years...

For the record;

Stem goes out in time-set position.
Push small button below and it goes out without any resistance.
Upon putting it back you hear a fain 'click' and it's good to go.
Let’s say you had removed the stem on one of these movements while the crown was still in first (winding) position, and after reinstalling it, turning the crown also turns the hands and won’t click out to position 2 or 3? ...asking for a friend, you know...
 
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