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Discussion Starter #1
Morning all,

I have close to 0 knowledge about watch making. If Tudor were to aspire making a 39mm GMT.. does that mean building a complete new movement? Of can they 'just' add a layer to the BB58 movement for the extra complication? Hence creating a slightly thicker watch?

I assume if they could they will probably wait a few years because they already have a hard time meeting demand on the BB58 but a 39mm GMT would be a guaranteed hit. From a busines point of view its probably better to release a bunch of different colored bezels and dials for all models though

Anyway; my question is about the movement and how complicated such an upgrade thing is
 

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Just googling the movement dimensions, the MT5402 in the BB58 is 26mm wide and a hair under 5mm thick, while the MT5652 GMT movement is around 32mm wide and 7.5mm thick. For a final reference point, the Rolex 3285 state-of-the-art GMT movement is 28.5mm/6.5mm thick, and it can fit into a case that's under 12.5mm in height, remarkably thin for such a robust movement.

That leaves two options: (a) redesign the GMT module to fit into a smaller movement, essentially coming up with an entirely new movement and needing to manufacture/QC that new movement at scale; or (b) try to redesign the BB58 case to have more room.

I highly doubt the latter is possible, at least not while preserving the same type of case sealing needed to get the same water resistance. That would mean fitting a thicker movement (7.5mm Tudor GMT vs. 6.5mm Rolex GMT) into a thinner Tudor case than the Rolex GMT Master II. There's no way they can just drop the MT5652 into the BB58's 39mm/11.9mm case and be done with it. Unsurprisingly, it's far easier to case small movements like ETAs into bigger watches than vice versa.

Asking for a 39mm Tudor GMT is not quite asking for the moon, but it's demanding a lot of Rolex's younger brother. They would need to build a movement that's the same size, if not smaller, than the Rolex 3285. That might require sacrificing power reserve or other features that make the current movement desirable. And even if they can develop a similar movement, which would be amazing, it's hard to see them casing it in a watch smaller than the 40mm/12.5mm dimensions of the Rolex GMT. Is Tudor going to make enough money from selling a watch just 1mm smaller than the current model (albeit noticeably thinner, which I agree would be a substantial improvement) to justify that R&D expense? As a collective, I suspect that Rolex/Tudor has decided that if customers want a 40mm case and a thinner, better GMT movement, they're just going to have to get in line for the Rolex version of the watch.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Just googling the movement dimensions, the MT5402 in the BB58 is 26mm wide and a hair under 5mm thick, while the MT5652 GMT movement is around 32mm wide and 7.5mm thick. For a final reference point, the Rolex 3285 state-of-the-art GMT movement is 28.5mm/6.5mm thick, and it can fit into a case that's under 12.5mm in height, remarkably thin for such a robust movement.

That leaves two options: (a) redesign the GMT module to fit into a smaller movement, essentially coming up with an entirely new movement and needing to manufacture/QC that new movement at scale; or (b) try to redesign the BB58 case to have more room.

I highly doubt the latter is possible, at least not while preserving the same type of case sealing needed to get the same water resistance. That would mean fitting a thicker movement (7.5mm Tudor GMT vs. 6.5mm Rolex GMT) into a thinner Tudor case than the Rolex GMT Master II. There's no way they can just drop the MT5652 into the BB58's 39mm/11.9mm case and be done with it. Unsurprisingly, it's far easier to case small movements like ETAs into bigger watches than vice versa.

Asking for a 39mm Tudor GMT is not quite asking for the moon, but it's demanding a lot of Rolex's younger brother. They would need to build a movement that's the same size, if not smaller, than the Rolex 3285. That might require sacrificing power reserve or other features that make the current movement desirable. And even if they can develop a similar movement, which would be amazing, it's hard to see them casing it in a watch smaller than the 40mm/12.5mm dimensions of the Rolex GMT. Is Tudor going to make enough money from selling a watch just 1mm smaller than the current model (albeit noticeably thinner, which I agree would be a substantial improvement) to justify that R&D expense? As a collective, I suspect that Rolex/Tudor has decided that if customers want a 40mm case and a thinner, better GMT movement, they're just going to have to get in line for the Rolex version of the watch.
Wow. Talking about an elaborate response! That is awesome! You must either be after the BB58 GMT yourself, be way too bored in quarantine or just be too cool!

Let me know if you use tapatalk than I will try out that gift functionality for a free motnh premium

Too bad it doesnt seem likely to see one in a tudor case
 

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Technical point of view, yes probably they might be able to. But it would cost an arm and a leg to build one from scratch. Like someone mentioned before, they built the bb58 movement from ground up, that already took a lot of resources, but from a business point of view, they could then distribute that movement to a wide range of watches.

If they build their movements (and if possible), like tag heuer’s modular movement base, they it would be “easier”. How ever tag’s movement is nowhere near small or thin.

An option they could bring is probably coloured bezel, and hour marker bezels for a second timezone viewing (like the bond seamaster 300, or tag autavia reissue), which I think will be a great addition to the watch, albeit a different bezel.

Another route they could do, is go with an ETA GMT movement.


https://calibercorner.com/eta-caliber-2893-2/

Far as I know, it’s quite small at almost 26mm, with GMT function. It’s actually a little smaller than Tudor’s current movement for BB58.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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Highly unlikely given the thickness of all in house Tudors. I personally dont see the big deal about thickness where the BB is concerned. A lot of this is due to the polished "slab" sides of the case being completely unbroken from the bezel down to the wrist, the bubble back part is tiny in comparison. If you look at the Omega PO, those things are really thick. I love them and keep trying them on but theyre massive. Even the 39.5 mm version is pretty thick but they have larger bubble backs on them in comparison to the BB so the visible case side is smaller than the BB if that makes sense? So I would go with it not going to happen. Watch trends change quickly anyway. We're in a 39mm obsession at the moment. I remember when the 45mm POs were the big sellers over their smaller siblings so im sure we will drift back towards larger watches at some point. There is a Pelagos thread somewhere and there are dozens of people hoping for a 39mm Pelagos which makes even less sense to me. The Pelagos is their tool dive watch and designed for legibility and the overhanging bezel makes it easier to turn with gloves on. Shrinking it to current trends could easily remove the dive/tool aspects of it closer in line with the "dress diver" BB. Personally I feel the bb58 looks a tad out of proportion anyway as it still has the thicker sides but with a smaller case. Adding a GMT feature isnt going to slim it down. You also have to factor in the fact Rolex/tudor do not pander to the whims of customers. They could have released a Tudor sub last year and it would have been a waiting list item. Remember the teaser and new year video with a quick shot of a sub etc. The internet blew up with Sub rumours. They released the PO1. Everyone is hoping for a slimmer lug Rolex sub this year or next. They may be lucky but Rolex are just as likely to make it a 45mm brown ceramic watch and kill off the entire 39mm market overnight. That was a long reply. Its almost as if im at home with nothing to do.
 

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Wow. Talking about an elaborate response! That is awesome! You must either be after the BB58 GMT yourself, be way too bored in quarantine or just be too cool!

Let me know if you use tapatalk than I will try out that gift functionality for a free motnh premium

Too bad it doesnt seem likely to see one in a tudor case
Thanks! As you guessed it, a bit of quarantine boredom at work there, glad the answer was helpful. I don't actually use the tapatalk app but no need for more than your thanks.
 

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Tudor’s R&D lab is shared with Rolex..., I mean they aren’t completely reinventing the wheel from scratch with these movements. The Tudor movement people =/= the Rolex movement people. Tudor’s just have a stricter budget.
 

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Nice to have but I personally was not bother by the additional "Beef" on the Tudor GMT during my ownership period.

Likewise, my date wheel operated perfectly.

Gained about 1 second a day, which is on par with my other Rolex and coaxial Omega.

All in all, it's still one of the bargain entry level swiss GMT watch that you can buy today.
 
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I would prefer the re-release of the tudor submariner but doubt both the sub and 39 gmt will be made.
 

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Agreed with many of the opinions above regarding the likelihood of Tudor releasing a 39mm GMT. Unfortunately, I think its low.

From following Tudor/Rolex product strategy decisions, it seems a couple major principles have stood out. First, and probably foremost, they do not want to create anything on the Tudor line that would cannibalize Rolex sales. Think about the Tudor BB 58. It's an amazing watch and one that I will probably buy at some point. However, think about the controversy around the gilt bezel. It is just oh so close to being that perfect dive watch that many would probably chose over the Submariner in its current incarnation. I feel as though they left some added aesthetic "flair" on the piece in order to create differentiation. While an amazing piece, there are many (by no means all!) that would purchase it while still aspiring to own a Submariner. And I am not saying this due to Rolex brand recognition, only from my opinion on the aesthetic.

Additionally, another common thread seems to be that not only does Rolex/Tudor shy away from carbon copy redos of previous watches as a principle of design, they also try to somewhat protect the vintage watch values by not releasing anything that would limit their appeal. I believe that while the vintage market has cut into the new market somewhat, it more than makes up for any reduction in sales by presenting the new buyer with a strong case as to the potential value appreciation of Rolex (and Tudor to some extent) pieces over time. By making a BB58 in traditional Submariner colors or a BB GMT 58, I believe they would be violating both of these principals by capturing sales from others who would otherwise be buying pieces in the vintage/semi-vintage market and thus, bolstering the general value of Rolex watches. Hell, I know that for myself, I am considering purchasing either a 14060m or a 16710 pepsi right now. If they came out with a BB58 without a gilt bezel or a BB58 GMT I would definitely not purchase the Rolex alternatives.

I add one giant disclaimer to all of this with a "I probably have no clue what I'm talking about and this is all just my opinion". This is my first post on the forum, looking forward to chatting with many of you!
 

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Agreed with many of the opinions above regarding the likelihood of Tudor releasing a 39mm GMT. Unfortunately, I think its low.

From following Tudor/Rolex product strategy decisions, it seems a couple major principles have stood out. First, and probably foremost, they do not want to create anything on the Tudor line that would cannibalize Rolex sales. Think about the Tudor BB 58. It's an amazing watch and one that I will probably buy at some point. However, think about the controversy around the gilt bezel. It is just oh so close to being that perfect dive watch that many would probably chose over the Submariner in its current incarnation. I feel as though they left some added aesthetic "flair" on the piece in order to create differentiation. While an amazing piece, there are many (by no means all!) that would purchase it while still aspiring to own a Submariner. And I am not saying this due to Rolex brand recognition, only from my opinion on the aesthetic.

Additionally, another common thread seems to be that not only does Rolex/Tudor shy away from carbon copy redos of previous watches as a principle of design, they also try to somewhat protect the vintage watch values by not releasing anything that would limit their appeal. I believe that while the vintage market has cut into the new market somewhat, it more than makes up for any reduction in sales by presenting the new buyer with a strong case as to the potential value appreciation of Rolex (and Tudor to some extent) pieces over time. By making a BB58 in traditional Submariner colors or a BB GMT 58, I believe they would be violating both of these principals by capturing sales from others who would otherwise be buying pieces in the vintage/semi-vintage market and thus, bolstering the general value of Rolex watches. Hell, I know that for myself, I am considering purchasing either a 14060m or a 16710 pepsi right now. If they came out with a BB58 without a gilt bezel or a BB58 GMT I would definitely not purchase the Rolex alternatives.

I add one giant disclaimer to all of this with a "I probably have no clue what I'm talking about and this is all just my opinion". This is my first post on the forum, looking forward to chatting with many of you!
 
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