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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Seeing as the original thread I made is about a different watch concept and I have two newer ones that I want to focus on, guess it was time to make a new thread.

Backstory's the same... since delving further into the despairity of WISdom, I started to try making watch designs and shared them with some friends, so I naturally got the suggestion that I could try getting my own made.

This time around, I have two designs that I think I would want to try to work on for production and possible launch; a more classical "nautical inspired" desk-diver, a boating watch, perhaps, and an aggressive, chunky tool watch more in line with my anti-minimalist aesthetic.
Since I have two very different styles of watch here, I'm thinking which I might want to dedicate resources towards making a prototype. Which would you think? Both are currently specified with the premium series Miyotas, but I'd also consider making them with Swiss movements if viable.


First, the classic style desk-diver. My intent with this was to get an older looking design with some vintage-esque inspiration in a vintage size and thinner profile. I'd intend surfaces to be a mixture of brushing and polished. Lume is minimal for a more classic look, but on a version with a silver/white dial like this the BGW9 on the dial would be 'hidden'. A full-lume dial or lume on the indices is also possible. I'd also consider making this with a sterile dial (no logo). Ignore the plain stock image for the movement, I'd intend a custom rotor at the very least, if additional decoration is hard to get.

Case diameter: 37.5mm
Case lug to lug: 45mm
Case width including crown: ~39.5mm
Case thickness including caseback: ~10.5mm
Overall thickness including box sapphire protrusion: 10.6mm
Case material: 316L, fine brushed finish, polished bezel edge
Caseback: Exhibition
Target water resistance: 150m (15 ATM / 500ft)
Dial: Ice silver with luminous chapter dots, polished metal applique stick indices (double-stick 12-3-6-9), sloped blue rehaut with luminous numerals
Bezel: unidirectional 120 click, coarse circular brushed steel with engraved timer markings and 60/0 BGW9 Luminova stripe
Lume: C3 Luminova (chapter dots), BGW9 Luminova (hidden cardinal lume)
Crystal: Box sapphire
Movement: Miyota 9039 (28,800vph, hackable, no date)
Hands: Arrow hour & pointed stick minute, spearhead seconds, polished finish, Luminova C3
Strap: Dark blue leather with light blue contrast stitch / black leather with blue contrast stitch / rubber

Dial variant: Black brushed with polished applique indices, luminous, sloped red rehaut with luminous numerals




Second up is the more outlandish one, which features a blocky, chunky case design and lots of lume. The half-second hashes are supposed to be luminous too but I forgot to apply the property to those.
I also got feedback that the crown is too small, so I may upsize that. I'm also considering ways to add in a 6'o'clock date that doesn't interfere with the layout too much, as the location of a date wheel isn't something I'd be able to change.
I'm also considering redesigning it into a variant that uses an internal bezel rotated by an outer bezel, ala IWC SafeDive or the Ball Engineer Master II Diver (Pro), more of the latter. I'm not sure how easy that would be to manufacture, but it would certainly bring in something different. Another strong consideration is that I might try to get this made in a left-hand drive layout (aka Destro).

Case diameter: 40.2mm
Case lug to lug: 48.45mm
Case width including crown: ~42.3mm
Overall target thickness: ~11.8mm
Case material: 316L, sandblasted & brushed
Caseback: Exhibition
Target water resistance: 300m (30ATM, 1,000ft)
Dial 1: Pure black / black sunburst / micropattern (haven't decided, basically), deep blue tiered rehaut with luminous hashes and numerals
Dial 2: Dark blue with micropattern, blue rehaut with luminous hashes and numerals
Dial 3: silver with aquablack rehaut
Indices: applique metal with luminous segments, sandblasted finish
Bezel: unidirectional 120 click, sandblasted steel, luminous insert with sapphire glass, different edging from 0-20
Lume: C3 Luminova / BGW9 mix / White Line on crown & seconds counterbalance
Crystal: Double domed, ~1.5mm thick
Movement: Miyota 9039 (28,800vph, hackable, no date)
Hands: Sandblasted finish, BGW9 seconds/hours, C3 minutes
Strap: rubber / sandblasted finish bracelet with brushed bevels




I'm looking for wider feedback on both designs and to decide which I'd like to attempt prototyping first, so hit me!
 

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I really liked the first one...very clean and pleasing to the eye. The second design was too busy for me. Of course, reading your description, my aesthetic probably leans the opposite of yours. So, to try and take your perspective, would it be possible to make number 1 more aggressive or to simplify No.2 somewhat? For the second design, the shape of the number markers was distracting along with the counterbalance logo on the second hand. Very cool project, good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I really liked the first one...very clean and pleasing to the eye. The second design was too busy for me. Of course, reading your description, my aesthetic probably leans the opposite of yours. So, to try and take your perspective, would it be possible to make number 1 more aggressive or to simplify No.2 somewhat? For the second design, the shape of the number markers was distracting along with the counterbalance logo on the second hand. Very cool project, good luck!
Thanks for your feedback!

It's likely you are more interested in a vintage style piece, and I thought making a design like this in an actual vintage size (37.5mm) could possibly appeal to such enthusiasts, or maybe female enthusiasts who would not want a 40mm+ watch.
I don't know if there'd be a way to cleanly make it more "aggressive" without wreaking havoc on the intended aesthetic. Perhaps changing the bezel to an insert rather than fully engraved steel, or making the bezel fully luminous as on an alternate black edition I rendered could work.


For the second, simplicity was not the name of the game, and my personal aesthetic is typically the anti-thesis of minimalist (many of my previous designs were very heavily loaded with lume or detailing). Its intended size at 40.2mm also makes it larger, though I'm wondering how viable it would be to produce it at 38~39mm. That said, I think a chunky and aggressive design like that would be better at a larger/midsize.
I forgot to mention that I was also considering designing a version that uses an internal rotating bezel actuated by an outer ring, like the Ball Diver Pro. Perhaps that might make for a less busy look, but I'm not sure how viable for manufacture that would be.
Could you clarify what you mean by "number markers"? The primary indices? Or the numerals on the rehaut?
The counterbalance logo on the second hand is also present on the first design, but in a much smaller size. I'm not sure what size would be actually viable to produce. On the second design, it is much larger, but in reality is just 2.5mm across and .2mm on each spoke. I'm wondering if it'd be possible to manufacture it still at 1.5mm wide with .1mm spokes.
 

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Thanks for your feedback!

It's likely you are more interested in a vintage style piece, and I thought making a design like this in an actual vintage size (37.5mm) could possibly appeal to such enthusiasts, or maybe female enthusiasts who would not want a 40mm+ watch.
I don't know if there'd be a way to cleanly make it more "aggressive" without wreaking havoc on the intended aesthetic. Perhaps changing the bezel to an insert rather than fully engraved steel, or making the bezel fully luminous as on an alternate black edition I rendered could work.


For the second, simplicity was not the name of the game, and my personal aesthetic is typically the anti-thesis of minimalist (many of my previous designs were very heavily loaded with lume or detailing). Its intended size at 40.2mm also makes it larger, though I'm wondering how viable it would be to produce it at 38~39mm. That said, I think a chunky and aggressive design like that would be better at a larger/midsize.
I forgot to mention that I was also considering designing a version that uses an internal rotating bezel actuated by an outer ring, like the Ball Diver Pro. Perhaps that might make for a less busy look, but I'm not sure how viable for manufacture that would be.
Could you clarify what you mean by "number markers"? The primary indices? Or the numerals on the rehaut?
The counterbalance logo on the second hand is also present on the first design, but in a much smaller size. I'm not sure what size would be actually viable to produce. On the second design, it is much larger, but in reality is just 2.5mm across and .2mm on each spoke. I'm wondering if it'd be possible to manufacture it still at 1.5mm wide with .1mm spokes.
I think you are right about the 1st design. I'm not sure how you would make it more "aggressive." What would you think of using alpha hands? I would de-lume the counterbalance logo on the second hand. Sorry about the "number markers," lol. I meant the indices. But, looking again I think maybe its the triangular shape inside (pointing to the number) that seems too much to me. Perhaps removing the triangular shape on the dial and the number it points to, leaving only the lines that radiate out on the dial. The indices also mimic your logo, yes? I would take if off the counterbalance of the second hand because you are already incorporating the logo in the indices OR make it a lot smaller like the first rendering with no lume and the same color as the rest of the second hand so it does not stand out. I just think that it is distracting to see that spin. As far as size goes, I have wrists on the smaller side, so I wear 38 to 42mm, with 40 being my sweet spot. I know most folks wear bigger, especially divers. The second design would be fine for me, size wise. I wouldn't mind it if the first design was a little bigger...perhaps 39. In my initial comment, I as commenting on the totality of the designs as I felt it all "worked" together. However, if I were purchasing, I might lean toward the second design if there was a little less going on. Anyway, who knows? It's always difficult to comment on someone else's vision because it's yours not mine. I hope you get input from other folks on the board who can be more articulate about what they see. I hope you get one made! This stuff inspires me. It takes a lot of passion for the amount of work involved.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I think you are right about the 1st design. I'm not sure how you would make it more "aggressive." What would you think of using alpha hands? I would de-lume the counterbalance logo on the second hand. Sorry about the "number markers," lol. I meant the indices. But, looking again I think maybe its the triangular shape inside (pointing to the number) that seems too much to me. Perhaps removing the triangular shape on the dial and the number it points to, leaving only the lines that radiate out on the dial. The indices also mimic your logo, yes? I would take if off the counterbalance of the second hand because you are already incorporating the logo in the indices OR make it a lot smaller like the first rendering with no lume and the same color as the rest of the second hand so it does not stand out. I just think that it is distracting to see that spin. As far as size goes, I have wrists on the smaller side, so I wear 38 to 42mm, with 40 being my sweet spot. I know most folks wear bigger, especially divers. The second design would be fine for me, size wise. I wouldn't mind it if the first design was a little bigger...perhaps 39. In my initial comment, I as commenting on the totality of the designs as I felt it all "worked" together. However, if I were purchasing, I might lean toward the second design if there was a little less going on. Anyway, who knows? It's always difficult to comment on someone else's vision because it's yours not mine. I hope you get input from other folks on the board who can be more articulate about what they see. I hope you get one made! This stuff inspires me. It takes a lot of passion for the amount of work involved.
Thanks for elaborating. I had a very distinct idea in mind for the first one, so I would not be especially keen to change it up a lot unless the design is outright unpopular. If I want to ride the apparently ongoing vintage wave, I thought it might work for that.


For the indices on the second design, I originally designed that shape to incorporate a date window at 6'o'clock for an older design, but did not use them in the end. The date would have gone into the hexagon portion and all indices would have outline-style lume save for 12 having solid. I'm still not sure they work all around rather than on cardinals only.
I'm actually strongly considering removing the numerals and the white lines from the main dial to clean up a bit, but the dial felt strangely empty without them.

For the seconds counterbalance symbol, I'm quite certain its not a detail I want to remove - it's inspired, but from where it comes from it's a detail I really like. Maybe taking the lume off might make it less distracting, another option could be to have a nonluminous tip so only the counterbalance glows for the seconds, which would be a bit like how some Seikos have a lume tail instead, which still qualifies for a "running in the dark underwater indication".
As you suggest, maybe it should be smaller - but for now I'll have to find out what would be the size it can actually be manufactured in!


For size, I'm also wondering how viable it is to offer either design in multiple sizes. As far as I know, for the wider world, 40mm is in, but 39mm and below is seeing a strong comeback. The first design I feel would be best to retain a classic size of 37.5mm, but I'm sure that it can be sized up to 40 reasonably and perhaps fit a date at 3/6 in place of the indices comfortably if that were to be done. The second probably would look kind of comical if it were too small.
 

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Thanks for elaborating. I had a very distinct idea in mind for the first one, so I would not be especially keen to change it up a lot unless the design is outright unpopular. If I want to ride the apparently ongoing vintage wave, I thought it might work for that.


For the indices on the second design, I originally designed that shape to incorporate a date window at 6'o'clock for an older design, but did not use them in the end. The date would have gone into the hexagon portion and all indices would have outline-style lume save for 12 having solid. I'm still not sure they work all around rather than on cardinals only.
I'm actually strongly considering removing the numerals and the white lines from the main dial to clean up a bit, but the dial felt strangely empty without them.

For the seconds counterbalance symbol, I'm quite certain its not a detail I want to remove - it's inspired, but from where it comes from it's a detail I really like. Maybe taking the lume off might make it less distracting, another option could be to have a nonluminous tip so only the counterbalance glows for the seconds, which would be a bit like how some Seikos have a lume tail instead, which still qualifies for a "running in the dark underwater indication".
As you suggest, maybe it should be smaller - but for now I'll have to find out what would be the size it can actually be manufactured in!


For size, I'm also wondering how viable it is to offer either design in multiple sizes. As far as I know, for the wider world, 40mm is in, but 39mm and below is seeing a strong comeback. The first design I feel would be best to retain a classic size of 37.5mm, but I'm sure that it can be sized up to 40 reasonably and perhaps fit a date at 3/6 in place of the indices comfortably if that were to be done. The second probably would look kind of comical if it were too small.
I think leaving the lume on the counterbalance of the second hand is a great idea if you are removing it from the end of the second hand. Accentuates your logo without having two lights spinning. Just wondering if you tried the white lines on the dial without the numerals and the triangle shape between the numerals and the indices? Was it still too empty?
 

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Thanks for elaborating. I had a very distinct idea in mind for the first one, so I would not be especially keen to change it up a lot unless the design is outright unpopular. If I want to ride the apparently ongoing vintage wave, I thought it might work for that.


For the indices on the second design, I originally designed that shape to incorporate a date window at 6'o'clock for an older design, but did not use them in the end. The date would have gone into the hexagon portion and all indices would have outline-style lume save for 12 having solid. I'm still not sure they work all around rather than on cardinals only.
I'm actually strongly considering removing the numerals and the white lines from the main dial to clean up a bit, but the dial felt strangely empty without them.

For the seconds counterbalance symbol, I'm quite certain its not a detail I want to remove - it's inspired, but from where it comes from it's a detail I really like. Maybe taking the lume off might make it less distracting, another option could be to have a nonluminous tip so only the counterbalance glows for the seconds, which would be a bit like how some Seikos have a lume tail instead, which still qualifies for a "running in the dark underwater indication".
As you suggest, maybe it should be smaller - but for now I'll have to find out what would be the size it can actually be manufactured in!


For size, I'm also wondering how viable it is to offer either design in multiple sizes. As far as I know, for the wider world, 40mm is in, but 39mm and below is seeing a strong comeback. The first design I feel would be best to retain a classic size of 37.5mm, but I'm sure that it can be sized up to 40 reasonably and perhaps fit a date at 3/6 in place of the indices comfortably if that were to be done. The second probably would look kind of comical if it were too small.
I think leaving the lume on the counterbalance of the second hand is a great idea if you are removing it from the end of the second hand. Accentuates your logo without having two lights spinning. Just wondering if you tried the white lines on the dial without the numerals and the triangle shape between the numerals and the indices? Was it still too empty?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I think leaving the lume on the counterbalance of the second hand is a great idea if you are removing it from the end of the second hand. Accentuates your logo without having two lights spinning. Just wondering if you tried the white lines on the dial without the numerals and the triangle shape between the numerals and the indices? Was it still too empty?
I haven't tried simplifying the dial in that manner. I think I would prefer to keep the triangular point of the indices however.
For the numerals, I can see how it looks without those but the white lines. Another thing I'm wondering is whether I ought to use 12 hour or 24 hour numerals.
 

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I haven't tried simplifying the dial in that manner. I think I would prefer to keep the triangular point of the indices however.
For the numerals, I can see how it looks without those but the white lines. Another thing I'm wondering is whether I ought to use 12 hour or 24 hour numerals.
What about leaving the triangular shape at the 3, 6, and 9... the way you have it lumed?
 

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Idea for you to implement the date at 6 without chaning current design. How about the instead of a marker at six, you use the shape as a dial cutout to show the date wheel below? Then, if you lumed the entire datewheel, you'd not really notice any break in symmetry in the dark, if you follow what I mean?
 

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I really like the second one (like the first one too, but not a fan of white/light dials). Has that aggressive samurai-like angled lugs and an interesting play on the round indices look. I have a few suggestions/comments:

1. I feel that the inner ring of blue 24 hour indices is distracting and dates the dial with (for me) allusions to Hamilton-type field watch dials.. You got a really cool Hex/Diamond-index design, I would like to see what this one will look like if you really go full bore with those and make them somewhat (or much-) larger while removing the 24 hour scale and keeping the 12-4-8 guide-lines..

2. The particular "purplish" hue of the color blue you use doesn't sing to me, I just photoshopped it into a "desaturated sky-blue" using Hue-Saturation controls and am liking that much better.. Personal preference obviously.


Anyway, those are my thoughts, love the lume layout too!


t3tan3k
 

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Discussion Starter #13
What about leaving the triangular shape at the 3, 6, and 9... the way you have it lumed?
That might work, yeah.

Idea for you to implement the date at 6 without chaning current design. How about the instead of a marker at six, you use the shape as a dial cutout to show the date wheel below? Then, if you lumed the entire datewheel, you'd not really notice any break in symmetry in the dark, if you follow what I mean?
I originally came up with the shape to actually fit a date window at six inside the luminous shape, making all markers 'hollow' save for 12'o'clock. However, to fit the date window cleanly in the marker at a 40mm size instead of a 38mm size, would require a considerably smaller dial, or a much larger indice.
A luminous date wheel sounds good, and I kinda intend to find out how viable that is for manufacture. Draken managed that on the Kalahari, but the Kalahari has a very small date wheel rather than a full-size one. Apart from the cost of the lume material there's actually also the fact that adding lume does add weight which can affect drive characteristics.

I really like the second one (like the first one too, but not a fan of white/light dials). Has that aggressive samurai-like angled lugs and an interesting play on the round indices look. I have a few suggestions/comments:

1. I feel that the inner ring of blue 24 hour indices is distracting and dates the dial with (for me) allusions to Hamilton-type field watch dials.. You got a really cool Hex/Diamond-index design, I would like to see what this one will look like if you really go full bore with those and make them somewhat (or much-) larger while removing the 24 hour scale and keeping the 12-4-8 guide-lines..

2. The particular "purplish" hue of the color blue you use doesn't sing to me, I just photoshopped it into a "desaturated sky-blue" using Hue-Saturation controls and am liking that much better.. Personal preference obviously.


Anyway, those are my thoughts, love the lume layout too!


t3tan3k
Thanks for your feedback! Perhaps you'd like the first one in the black or navy color way?

I was having a hard time with the rehaut for number two. Perhaps I might play with the color more, but somehow I found I liked the deep blue color that I landed on, I'd guess to contrast with the sky blue of the first design. I'll toy with some other colors. When you said dates it to Hamilton Fields, I suppose you mean it makes it feel older?
Said blue ring is actually a two-tier sloping rehaut with hexagonal 'platforms' where the numerals sit, I thought it would make for an interesting aspect to create some depth to the dial. I would actually proportionately prefer to make the rehaut much thinner, but it's also possible making them any smaller would make the numbers hard to actually read.
I'm considering separating the logo from the indices and going back to a design with different quarter indices like an older one, but someone suggested I try this layout. If I make the indices larger I can fit a date window, but I'd have to find some way to fill the resulting gulf between the edge of the dial and the location of the date.
Just to be clear, the guide lines are also at 10 and 2. There's six of them. But somehow I'm wondering if keeping just 12-4-6-8 actually makes for a nicer look, a sort of 'futuristic crosshair'. Somehow I do think they spruce up the dial a little without distracting too much...
In terms of the actual dial color, I think I'd try to go for a solid deep black, the kind that kinda just sucks up all light, if I was doing this particular combination.
 

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All of this makes sense of course. One thing is that the "blue ring" is not what i was referring to, i was talking about the 24 hour inner scale in blue that i wasn't a big fan of. The blue chapter ring looks great tk me as is!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
All of this makes sense of course. One thing is that the "blue ring" is not what i was referring to, i was talking about the 24 hour inner scale in blue that i wasn't a big fan of. The blue chapter ring looks great tk me as is!
Ah, okay. Yeah, I'm thinking it might be superfluous!

Here are the alternate color versions of Latitude both meant to feature larger quantities of lume:

On the dark blue version the hash marks will probably be made white.

Could I get some feedback on the handset too?



Just for kicks here's a dial design that I ended up not using:
 
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Hah i actually photoshopped the large 3-6-9 hex indices on your design yesterday but decided not to post - looked very similar to the above except with large segmented hex at 12 )) i agree that the original one you posted looks better..

Regarding hands, i dont mind the counterweight on seconds and like the shape and the chevron shape on hours. I do think that minutes are too narrow for me maybe.. i think since its syringe sape and lumed different color, you could make it the same width or close to it?..
 

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Oh and i love updated Latitude, that looks really sharp!! Love the hands on this and the indices look very refined!

I think it completely transformed with blue dial - i dont even mind the 24h scale on this version.
 

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Design 2, still thinking markers at 3,6,9 could work as in your discarded option if smaller. Same size as other indices with the triangle shape added.
 
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