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I was reading in another watch forum that there are multiple types of 2824-2 mechanism- Standard, Elabore, Top, and Chronometre.

Standard/Elabore has straighter balance wheel spoke (not as flared near the rim), and the balance wheel mount does not have an incabloc shock mount like the Top/Chronometre version (incabloc seems to have a "screw head" at the centre of the balance wheel with the incabloc spring, the etachoc in the cheaper one just has something that looks like a circlip).

My question is- are the automatic Flieger movements different between non-COSC and COSC versions?
 
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My question is- are the automatic Flieger movements different between non-COSC and COSC versions?...
Yes they are different, the COSC movement is availbale for additional money only which already suggests that there is a difference.;-)
 

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Yes they are different, the COSC movement is availbale for additional money only which already suggests that there is a difference.;-)
Not too sure about that Mike..
The COSC refers to a certificate that has been obtained from an organisation confirming the accuracy of the movement.
There is a cost attached to this - which would have to be passed on by Stowa.
All I am saying is that there is not necessarily any big difference in terms of the movement, just because one has been put through COSC approval and the other has not.
Probably you will find that they are both the same grade of 2824.
Happy to be proved wrong - just wanted to help de-mystify a little.

Regards

Mark
 
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Here is my standard reply

ETA grades 2824-2 related

Standard and Elaboré:
Mainspring - Nivaflex NO
Shock protection - Etachocs
Pallet stones - Polyrubies, Epilame-coated
Balance - Nickel gilt
Balance staff - Epilame coated
Collet - Nivatronic
Hairspring - Nivarox 2
Hairspring heat treatment - Etastable

Top and Chronometre:
Mainspring - NivaflexNM
Shock protection - Incabloc
Pallet stones - Red rubies, Epilame-coated
Balance - Glucydur gilt
Balance staff - Epilame coated
Collet - Nivatronic
Hairspring - Anachron
Hairspring heat treatment - Etastable

The performance differences are the big differences between the various grades: ("The limit values are subject to interpretation: 95% of the pieces delivered in a lot must be within the specified limits.")

Standard:
2 positions (CH, 6H)
daily rate: +/-12 sec/day
Maximum positional variation: 30 sec
Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 20 sec

Elaboré:
3 positions (CH, 6H, 9H)
daily rate: +/-7 sec/day
Maximum positional variation: 20 sec
Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 15 sec

Top:
5 positions (CH, FH, 6H, 9H, 3H)
daily rate: +/-4 sec/day
Maximum positional variation: 15 sec
Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 10 sec

Chronometre:
As per COSC specifications, which as far as most owners will notice, isn't much different from Top grade.
For COSC see: www.cosc.ch
 

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Very informative, Mike...thanks!:-!
 

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Am considering an Airman without logo.

Question about the movement options.

Is the non COSC the same exact movement as the COSC version? Or does the COSC version have upgraded parts?

In other words, is the COSC version just a certified version of the exact same movement?
 
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Am considering an Airman without logo.

Question about the movement options.

Is the non COSC the same exact movement as the COSC version? Or does the COSC version have upgraded parts?

In other words, is the COSC version just a certified version of the exact same movement?

Go to ETA SA Customer Service here https://secure.eta.ch/CSP/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=0&tabid=1, click on "Technical Ducuments", type 2824-4 et voilá....
 

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As you said Top and COSC are basically the same (except for the certification). Question unanswered is what Stowa uses in their non-COSC watches, I assume it will be elaboré.
+1. This is an unanswered question. Anyone know for sure what grade is in the non COSC auto Airmans?
 

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I believe Jorg uses the top grade 2824-2 in the Airman. I say believe because my Airman has what looks to be the characteristic hourglass shaped incabloc shock protection, which is only available on top and chronometre grades 2824's. I have not been able to locate a photo of the etachoc shock protection used in the standard and elaboree grades for comparison. So take that FWIW.
 

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if it doesn't have a glucydur balance (with the spokes that get wider toward the rim), then it's definitely not top. that's another good way to be sure.

 

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Hmm, that's a good point. Based on your photo, mine does not appear to be glucydur. But, as I said, the shock protection looks to be incabloc. It's clearly not novodiac.

Does anyone have a picture of the etachocs shock protection for comparison purposes?
 

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Novodiac and Incabloc.....pic from tztoolshop!


BTW, I've seen Archimede Pilot with the incabloc shock protection. But I remember reading somewhere that Archimede used the elabore grade of movement for their pilot. So having an incabloc shock protection may not necessary mean u got a TOP movement. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If u look at MKII Sea-Fighter specs, it shows an elabore grade with incabloc shock protection.
 

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Using the search function will show that this has been discussed many times in the past. The standard movement is elaboré. It is decorated with hand-blued screws on the movement and subject to more stringent regulation.
 

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yeah, the incabloc is found i believe in all versions except for the lowest grade, and maybe even the lowest grade gets it. or at least i believe that's the case. i have actually never seen a 2824 without the incabloc.
 
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