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Discussion Starter #1
Hello folks! New forum member here. Member of Redbar in ATX.

I'm looking for information on this particular Eska model. Here's the info I have so far.

- Eska stainless steel wristwatch Circa 1950's
- All steel 3 piece unpolished case with original dial
- Swiss fully jewelled movement ETA caliber 1061
- Case number 5313962.
- Case signed by associated company doxa.
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Does anyone know more about this particular model? Does the case number identify this model as ref. 5313962?
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Here's the info I have about Eska from the Dan Henry Timeline, "Eska is one of the smallest watch brands. After the end of World War I many watch manufacturers appeared in Europe and Sylvan Kocher & Cie. was of them. The name Eska is the phonetic spelling in French of the letter s and k (es-ka). The wristwatches of the brand included manual and automatic models, besides models with full calendars and digital time displays.
 

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First of all..."case signed by associated company Doxa?" Wut? Doxa didn't make their own cases. It would make completely no sense for them to be supplying another company with a case that they've already bought in from someone else... An Eska from the 1940s-early 1950s should be marked "S.Kocher & Co. Swiss", and here, we don't have that. We have a Doxa stamp, and a Doxa serial for 1953.

Needless to say that this dial/hands design doesn't exactly scream 1953...

My take on the matter is that it's an "orphaned" Eska movement-dial combo, the case of which has been scrapped for gold, transplanted into a Doxa case with matching dimensions. Given that Doxas came in an astounding variety of sizes and with a number of generic movements, finding a matching case among them wouldn't exactly be hard.

If someone has any documentation of any "association" between Eska and Doxa, it would be most useful.

Unless there is any evidence that Eska actually used Doxa cases with Doxa markings and Doxa serials, this one's a franken. Pretty, but a franken.
 

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Never heard of such an "association".
Neither did I. But I know who conjured it up in order to sell this frankenwatch - a shop called Antique Watch of 19 Clerkenwell Road, Farringdon, London.

See, I did a little digging...and found this:
https://www.yelp.co.uk/biz_photos/antique-watch-london-2

...which led to this...
https://www.yelp.co.uk/biz/antique-watch-london-2

...and that, in turn, to a recent customer review:
https://www.yelp.co.uk/user_details?userid=ShHnYuBdoRJGYkgOrSiArQ

As the review goes...
My wife and I had an overwhelmingly positive experience with Antique Watch Co.

Both employees present took the time to show us multiple watches, expensive and affordable, and answer my many questions about the watches and general watch-nerd shop-talk. I was most drawn to an affordable (under $500) vintage watch, the Eska shown in the photo attached. We didn't buy it at on the spot. Instead, my wife coordinated with the shop owners to buy it after store hours so that she could surprise me. The employees went above and beyond in the time they spent answering my very detail-oriented questions about the watch and coordinating with my wife with the after-hours pickup and surprise gift.

I was very impressed with the authentication papers and care instructions they provided with the watch as well as the complimentary strap and travel case. This is my first vintage watch and the experience with Antique Watch Co. has enriched my enjoyment of the watch so far.

I live in Austin, TX but if I ever find myself in London again, I'll definitely make a point to drop by again to see what goodies they have in store.
So... I'm very sorry, Winston, but whatever "authentication papers" you've been presented with, are full of lies. Pre-1966 Doxa records are gone. Eska largely stopped making watches in 1980, went from watchmaking to other ventures, and what was left of it went belly up by 1987. There are no archives either of Eska or Doxa, and thus there's no documentation to prove any "cooperation."

If you'll be in London again, I wouldn't suggest revisiting 19 Clerkenwell Road. Of course they went above and beyond, they must have been awfully pleased to find such an excited buyer for a frankenwatch that either they have been duped into (or never cared for its authenticity in the first place), or worse, which they have cobbled together themselves.

I always play a little game of checking other offerings of a seller, in order to check how clueless or full of sh...yyy....feces are they. And here, let's look... Of course, they claim "100% authentic brands and products." Lies.
Like in the case of this "all authentic" Omega...
https://www.antiquewatchcoltd.com/products/productdetails/534
...which happens to be a redial, with an awful relume job.
None of the above issues mentioned.
Oh, and priced at 1500 quid. By how they fleeceth their client, thou shalt know the fleecer.

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news about the watch.

And the moral of the story is: when you go hunting for watches, know your watches, else - in very colloquial terms - any crook will catch you with your pants down. And if you don't know your watches, just ask if you can take photos, and then, well...Let's say that by asking in this forum, you've asked for info in the right place. Only since you did so after you've bought this lemon, you've asked at the wrong time.
 

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I'm wondering if the mid-case isn't newly fabricated. The case-back has been polished to the extent that one of the numbers is almost erased, but the lugs are absolutely unpolished and sharp.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Gents, thank you.

To be honest, I'm not sure what to think. I've heard from a few other collectors in Redbar that there was a connection between Doxa and Eska, but I haven't seen any proof of this. As it's probably painfully clear, I'm pretty new to watch collecting.

I'm kicking myself now for erasing a very uncomfortable response I received from the owner of the said shop above. I asked him a total of 3 questions ... that's 3 ... not 30 ... after purchasing the watch after which he went on a text-message tirade about how I was wasting his time, that I was acting "weird" and "strange," to try and enjoy the watch, or to just send it back to him. I was astonished but figured maybe I had wasted his time and apologized. If I get any more clarity on whether this is a frankenwatch, and was duped, I will absolutely send it back to him after I amend my Yelp review until he processes the refund.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
^ This is the invoice I received. I've used digital white out to protect our information as well as their bank draft information.
 

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Gents, thank you.

To be honest, I'm not sure what to think. I've heard from a few other collectors in Redbar that there was a connection between Doxa and Eska, but I haven't seen any proof of this. As it's probably painfully clear, I'm pretty new to watch collecting.

I'm kicking myself now for erasing a very uncomfortable response I received from the owner of the said shop above. I asked him a total of 3 questions ... that's 3 ... not 30 ... after purchasing the watch after which he went on a text-message tirade about how I was wasting his time, that I was acting "weird" and "strange," to try and enjoy the watch, or to just send it back to him. I was astonished but figured maybe I had wasted his time and apologized. If I get any more clarity on whether this is a frankenwatch, and was duped, I will absolutely send it back to him after I amend my Yelp review until he processes the refund.
The owner's confrontational response is a major red flag IMO. I would take him up on his offer to return it, because I'm not sure what more clarity you are going to get about the authenticity of the watch. Everything points towards it being put together from parts and nothing suggests that it is legit. However, you can't prove it, and the seller will just continue to be defensive about it. Just return it and let him blow off his steam.

Another way of looking at the situation is that the watch wouldn't be worth more than $100 even if it were totally legit.

Edit: I'm not sure what the point is to post the invoice.
 

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Sorry Winstawatches, but the guys are right, especially @mwks who is something of an authority on vintage Doxa watches.

For reference, here's what a legit Eska looks like, inside and out. Admittedly not nearly as attractive-looking as yours, but with an AS 1172/1173 bumper auto movement and which was bought from the States for the equivalent of 39GBP. I'd say return it for a full refund as you can do better, and much cheaper, elsewhere.

Regards.
 

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To be honest, I'm not sure what to think. I've heard from a few other collectors in Redbar that there was a connection between Doxa and Eska, but I haven't seen any proof of this.
And you likely won't see it, unless these few other collectors all chip in for a DeLorean time machine and save Eska's archives from becoming wastepaper, and then make another jump in time, to 1966, to nick Doxa's archives before they were turned into papier mache by a flood. Unless they have evidence of that claim, they can equally claim they're Napoleon Bonaparte, the tooth fairy, or even Elvis himself.

As it's probably painfully clear, I'm pretty new to watch collecting.
We all once were. If I were to recall what I was like (as a watch collector) five years ago...uhhh, by Jove, I don't even want to think about it.

I'm kicking myself now for erasing a very uncomfortable response I received from the owner of the said shop above. I asked him a total of 3 questions ... that's 3 ... not 30 ... after purchasing the watch after which he went on a text-message tirade about how I was wasting his time, that I was acting "weird" and "strange," to try and enjoy the watch, or to just send it back to him. I was astonished but figured maybe I had wasted his time and apologized. If I get any more clarity on whether this is a frankenwatch, and was duped, I will absolutely send it back to him after I amend my Yelp review until he processes the refund.
A good seller, a stand-up guy, won't tell you something like "you're wasting my time." That's because a good seller has a reputation to uphold. If the seller goes into the "I don't care if it's a lemon, keep it or send it back, and sod off" sort of bickering, this means that he/she doesn't care for their reputation, their wares, and their clients. And don't apologise to that sort of seller for the fact of having asked questions. What is he, some shiny golden god to scold people off for asking him questions?
 

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Ugh. I had trouble sleeping last night over this. Angry and embarrassed. I'm going to message him tomorrow to request the refund. Should I ask for him to pay for shipping? As I mentioned before, he's in England and I'm in the USA. I'm going to keep it civil and I hope he does the same.
 

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Also, if the owner of Antique Watch Co., Jonathan, refuses to pay for shipping and/or refuses to honor his offer to give me a refund, what are my options if any? I know I can use the influence of my Yelp and Google reviews, my Instagram platform (however small), and my membership in Redbar but I'd really prefer not to battle over this or to do anything to provoke any nastiness on his part.
 

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Also, if the owner of Antique Watch Co., Jonathan, refuses to pay for shipping and/or refuses to honor his offer to give me a refund, what are my options if any? I know I can use the influence of my Yelp and Google reviews, my Instagram platform (however small), and my membership in Redbar but I'd really prefer not to battle over this or to do anything to provoke any nastiness on his part.
I wouldn't threaten him or ask him to pay for shipping. You made the purchase of your own free will, and I think you will just have to eat the shipping costs. He has already offered to let you return it, so just thank him for offering that and say that you'd like to take him up on the offer. You will need to ship the watch, and you will not get the funds until he receives it. He will probably make some snide remarks, but just swallow your pride and remain silent until you get the funds. Yes, there is a slight risk that he will not refund your payment, but personally I would take that risk. He has an established business, and if he gets the watch back in good condition, there's really no reason not to refund your payment. There are many dealers who engage in dishonesty and exaggeration with respect to the watches they sell, but they are not scammers when it comes to payment, refunds, etc.

I have had mostly positive interactions with dealers, and while the watches are not always as advertised, I can't recall anyone who ever tried to rip me off. On the contrary, dealers are usually professional in their dealings. They are tough negotiators, but that is to be expected since it is their business. As an example, in one case, a dealer and I discussed a trade, and to my surprise he suggested shipping me the watch so I could see if I liked it, and then I could ship my watch to him if I was satisfied. It turned out that I wasn't happy with the watch, so I shipped it back to him. We were both out the cost of shipping, but even though I didn't want that particular watch, we established a good relationship, and he indicated that if I was interested in anything on his website, he would send it to me so I could inspect it in person.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I really appreciate all the time you fellows have put into this thread, especially Dan S and MKWS. It's helped me out a great deal. I'll send the watch back tomorrow and hopefully have a positive update in a week or so.
 

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Not surprisingly, the owner of Antique Watch Co., Jonathan, has decided to go back on his word. Here is his response to my refund request, "Hello Winson. Many thanks for your email. Im afraid this option has now expired due to how long you have had the watch. Im always willing to help but you are taking advantage now. No shop or seller in the world would accommodate that. If a parcel arrives it will not be accepted.

Regards Jonathan
Buy Luxury Vintage Wrist Watches London, UK - Antique Watch UK "
 
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