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Discussion Starter #1
I have this sick liking to odd watch movements. I have this one on the way. I have spend a few hours looking for this shape to figure out who made it. The name Bouchet Brothers London does not come up with anything. But through hunting I did come up with Huguenin Vuillemin. I don't know if this is yet another retailer or the actual maker being that Huguenin Vuillemin is associated with a few different styles of movement. I have seen 2 rather exotic shapes like this one and a Lepine IV bar movement with a pivoted detent.

So is this a Huguenin Vuillemin being retailed as a Bouchet Brother London or some creature from a different maker all together? Does anyone recognize the shape?

The first group of pictures are of the movement I have being sent to me.











This is the Huguenin Vuillemin one that I found on a completed auction.




Overall I do not know the running condition as the seller did not have a key and knew nothing about it. I can be certain that it had a gold case being that it is gone! Stupid scrappers. Anyway....

I find the mounting for the hairspring and the fact that the regulator adjusts the length through a hole in the balance cock interesting. The diamond end stone is a nice feature. The oddest thing to me though is the 4th wheel of the train looks to be on the dial side of the watch. It engages the escapement wheel pinion from under the wheel through the plate.
 

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Nice. "Brittens" lists three Bouchets; Jacob (1714-1729), Jean Louis (1769, Paris) and John (1741, of Peter, St Martin in the Fields). Dunno if any of them were brothers...
 

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Unusuall,very interesting and after cleaning a gem. I've no idea about the orgin but as someone with nearly the same sickness, I think all parts matches to a swiss movement but the capstone area looks very british. Might be a adaption to the english market or a "correction" on the island. I hope you'll find the solution and tell us the result of this mystery.

KInd regards Silke
 

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I'm not sure Enrico about Japy freres/Beaucourt France. They build as a rawmovement producer a high amound of movements with this "bubblegumbridge" (my personal word - sorry) Usually this movements are without any rubies and not finished in this way. For example the germans Eppner also have a complete in house movement with this "bubblegumbridge" in better quality but this is not a Eppner. May be the basic platine is Japy but its to nice for my opinion. As far as I know they sell those raw movements also without balance an escapementpart but usually with complete winding system. I'm not sure . Maybe you're right but my stomach says: No.

Kind regards Silke
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I have to agree with Silke. While it has a blob bridge...my words lol they are too different in shape. I keep looking at the way the Winding arbor setup is. I have seen this on a few watches. So far the only identical shape is the one I found for Huguenin Vuillemin but I still don't think they were a maker. The bridge matching in shape is almost a must. If it was figured all 3 finger bridge watches were ELgin then you would miss all the others that were 3 finger bridge and not Elgin.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I think the way the regulator adjust the hairspring may be a key to who made it. I have been hunting for hours and have not found another that uses that method.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I appreciate the work. The records are for a time a minimum of 100 years before this movement would have been made. If they had been around for over 100 years I would expect to find more watches with this name on them.
 

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Ah............,there must be something ,somewhere on the web though given it`s vastness of archives,just sorry that didn`t help.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Again I find a (as it was said) bubblegum movement by Huguenin Vuillemin. Item number 254 has the same setup for the winding.

http://www.jones-horan.com/1201/html/1201_I.htm
 

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Really? Why do you think this is a 1850 watch as opposed to a 1750 watch? The escapement uses the older escape wheel design which was used starting around 1754...just curious as to visual signs of determining its age?
 

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Really? Why do you think this is a 1850 watch as opposed to a 1750 watch? The escapement uses the older escape wheel design which was used starting around 1754...just curious as to visual signs of determining its age?
Lever watches with compensated balance and Breguet hairsprings in 1754??? surely not.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Agreed. The style of the engraving is later then the 1750's. Most maker in England in the 1750's would have been using fusee and verge.
 

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That doesn't actually answer my question about determining it's age though. Lever escapement was 1754. Compensated balance was around 1770. SO entirely possible that a watchmaker who was registered in 1741 could have made this post 1770?
 

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In my opinion, to determine the age both features and style must be considered. The style and finishing of this watch is clearly 19th century. To draw a parallel from cars front wheel drive was offered by christie in about 1909, alvis in 1925, cord in 1929 and citroen in the early 30s. So is any front wheel drive car likely to be from 1909? No, we must also look at the style.

Secondly, whoever had access to all these 'newfangled' innovations in the late 1700s must have been very influential indeed. We must draw a distinction between 'possible' and 'plausible'.

Kind regards

Aditya

EDIT: I would like to add layout to features and style.
 

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I believe what you have there Thoth to be quite rare and valuable,and i hope you find more clues to it`s heritage when you recieve the watch.
Best of luck.
Apollonaught.
 

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Not disagreeing; my question is more to the point of, what features/designs/etc specifically make you think "not older then...xxxx". Looking for education here, because I'd have put this in the early 19th century, not as late as 1850.
 

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Not disagreeing; my question is more to the point of, what features/designs/etc specifically make you think "not older then...xxxx". Looking for education here, because I'd have put this in the early 19th century, not as late as 1850.
1) For want of a better term- 'bubblegum' 3/4 plate layout.

2) The regulator- Tompion type was the norm late 18th century. It was still quite common in the early 19th when the bosley type came in. This type of modern regulator on the balance cock came in mid to late 19th century.

3) Since this does not have a fusee it most likely will have geneva stopwork. I am not sure when that was invented but would tend to think mid to late 19th century.

These are just some things apparent to me at a casual glance.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards

Aditya

EDIT: What I have written above is for English watches but apart from Breguet I don't think many in Switzerland were doing original work in the late 18th century.
 
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