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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)


Got an offer for this spaceman watch , could someone tell me if this is an original or a fake?

I have asked the seller whether if it was a genuine piece from the 70s and all he replies (2x) is that its a remake from the 90s. whats that suppose to mean. When did this series of watches stop production? does this mean its a fake?
 

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In all fairness to the seller, he was honest with you both in his auction description and his emails.
The auction description box clearly states that the watch was made between 2000-now and he told you "its a remake from the 90s " when you asked him about it.
Originally, they were sold by Tressa Lux, Fortis, Jules Jurgensen, Octo, Zeno Watch, Harlem and others, according to a brief article online.
It seems as though they were originally made from 1972-77.
As for who made this particular watch, I don't know nor do I know if they were officially reissued by the original manufacturer or not.
Unless the watch is some sort of counterfeit, I wouldn't consider the seller dishonest.
 

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There are a few easily found sites online run by sellers that specialize in retro watches from the 70's. You'd be best served working with someone that knows what they are doing and have a reputation for authenticity to protect.

As a practical matter, I've never associated these watches with metal bracelets anyway. All of the originals I've seen come with a " lacquered leather" strap.

 

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Hi there,

the spaceman models were made by Zeno for several brands. And since they flopped
in the 70s there was still a reasonable stock of parts left to assemble small series in
the 90s, and few are even available today from the factory.

So these watches are no replicas, but lately assembled originals.

Assembling complete watches degraded the spare part situation. For the Automatic
models still special parts like crystals, bezels, and straps are available, but for the
Audacieuse models almost nothing is left.

Regards, Roland Ranfft
 

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Hi there,

the spaceman models were made by Zeno for several brands. And since they flopped
in the 70s there was still a reasonable stock of parts left to assemble small series in
the 90s, and few are even available today from the factory.

So these watches are no replicas, but lately assembled originals.

Assembling complete watches degraded the spare part situation. For the Automatic
models still special parts like crystals, bezels, and straps are available, but for the
Audacieuse models almost nothing is left.

Regards, Roland Ranfft
This is why I love this forum. Eventually, there's someone that knows everything! Great post. Thanks for teaching something. :-!
 

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i just got messaged by one of his buyers warning me that the watches he sells are fake and he linked me here

http://dwf.nu/viewtopic.php?p=16472
http://dwf.nu/viewtopic.php?t=2732&highlight=catena

just a heads up~
I did not spend a whole lot of time trying to decipher those posts, but I missed any assertion of fakery regarding the watches we were talking about in this thread.

I think the assertion is these watches have been sourced by a vendor who has also sourced watches which are alleged by a poster on another forum to be fakes.

Cause for some concern, but I find it difficult to believe there is much money to be made in faking low volume retro watches which don't sell for much money in the first place. And Dr. Ranfft did state these watches were coming back onto the market after being made from NOS parts.

... all things to weigh in making decisions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
from what the buyer told me , he bought a spacesonic watch which was said to be an original , but he found a chinese movement inside.

as to making money off fakes of low valued watches , i think the slava copy "CJIABA" and the chinese komandirskies are some examples?

anyway back to the spaceman topic i have another question!



is this normal ? i noticed that for the spaceman watch that this other ebay seller is selling , there is NO spaceman logo on the case back unlike others that i have seen
 

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Hi fireal,

it is hard to believe that these watches were faked, but nothing is
impossible.

I sold some 50 samples from Zeno, and even 15 found the way into my
archive. But sorry, it was in a time when I didn't yet photograph the back.
According to the item descriptions
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2usau&1149087607&
the back had the raised inscription "Spacview Swiss Made", and if I
remember right, a skin diver motif. But I'm not sure.

Moreover the strap in you pic appears to be die casted plastic, while I've
only seen straps punched out of two-layer synthetic material. The upper
layer looked like suede, and had the trade name Cofam.

Maybe there were different casting tools, but now I wonder wy not a
single differing sample was among some 50 samples sold.

Regards, Roland Ranfft
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
thanks for the insight! , i agree this days its hard to be certain
heres some pics of cases with a skin diver motif for comparison

 

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Hi fireal,

nice to read that my memory works still reasonably.

After comparing with your earlier entry, it appears that the casting mold
had an inlay for different signatures.

And since both samples have different straps, probably both, die casted
plastic and punched Corfam, were made at any time.

Don't know which was earlier - likely the die casted, because the Corfam
straps are still available.

Regards, Roland Ranfft
 

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Just a comment to the terms used, plastics like this is not made by die casting. The correct term should be injection molding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
just wanted to update on this

the seller lesdoc has finally replied me after i asked like 10 times on his spaceman audacieuse auctions.



i'm afraid not

- lesdoc
Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply





Dear lesdoc,

is the movement swiss made?
 

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thanks for the insight! , i agree this days its hard to be certain
heres some pics of cases with a skin diver motif for comparison

isn't that a man in a space suit, not a skin diver?
 
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