WatchUSeek Watch Forums banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello!

Does anyone know if it is possible to build a "vertical" minute hand or have seen one in a previous watch? I'm designing a wrist watch and I like the minute hand to be around 2mm high? Can a regular ETA movement carry such and where can I have it done/build?

Any (relevant) input will be appreciated. Thank you.

Claus

Text Diagram Drawing Line Sketch
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
295 Posts
Not a watch designer, but to my understanding, as far as the weight of seconds hand doesn't exceed the normal it should be OK with the movement I feel.
You can also try an alternative, let the seconds hand be normal flat at the center and then twist it 90degrees after 2mm or so from the center. With this option you will get a vertical hand, no extra weight, no complicated center detail. All the best

Sent from my Lenovo S960 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,997 Posts
It all matters how much you tall miute hand weighs. Most ETA mecahnical movements will carry quite a bit of weight, and so there should not be a problem. As for where to get it made? I think you'll have to do it yourself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
846 Posts
It's a cool idea. Obviously it would not have a second hand, or it could have a small seconds at 6 or 9. But on a simple watch face it would give a real 3D look.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Thank you for all comments.... ...and please don't steal my idea before I finish this design her :)

ETA movement should be able to carry some of you say, sounds good. May I ask where do I find the information for ETA movements on the weight allowed - compared to Miyota and Rondo I find ET's website not so detailed compared to their competitors. Any link would be helpfull.

About the idea to twist the hand - I thought about this too, I just don't find it cool enough. It's realty "3D" effect (and some other ides) that should take this watch further.

Thanks everyone... Claus
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
846 Posts
About the idea to twist the hand - I thought about this too, I just don't find it cool enough. It's realty "3D" effect (and some other ides) that should take this watch further.
Totally agree, vertical all the way along.

I have the technical details for the 2824-2. On the last 2 pages they give all sorts of specifications for the hands: width of tube and pinion, heights from dial etc. There is a section for hand mass, unbalance, and press-in force, but these boxes are all blank :-(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,982 Posts
I think, in general, one should first exhaust the question, broken down to several parts:

1. WHY has it not been done before?
2. Am I the only one to have thought of this?
3. Were other people in the past 400 years simply too unimaginative to have come up with this?

Or..

1. Are there technical constraints that make it highly undesirable, even if not impossible?
And if so, what are those constraints?
And what really are the benefits if this is done?

I myself can see a lot of reasons why this has not been done, and why it is not a good idea, seen from a technical and business side of things, even if it's a harmless idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi Chronopolis,

First of all let me say INDEED I agree with most of your questions - as a designer today this is what I face everyday and in many ways I find that proven methods are proven for a reason. I went to school in Denmark (original as a furniture and product designer) and a given project would sound something like this: Design an armchair for people above 40'ies. So we did (without any revolutions).

Then - I broke out, went to study last a school in France as the first Danish guy and the youngest of my school. Here the approach was totally different: Design an object for indoor use for a body to rest on, target the corpus to be above age 40. Ohh man did we see something new - a lot. Not always good or feasible, but indeed mind-blowing and innovative.

What this did to me was to learn to think from scratch - and only do things different if it is for the better. Thomas Edison said "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." I love his optimism.

So to reply to you for sure valid points below:

I think, in general, one should first exhaust the question, broken down to several parts:

1. WHY has it not been done before?

bomancreative reply: Maybe only been tried 9,999 times before ways on not how not to do it!

2. Am I the only one to have thought of this?

bomancreative reply: I would doubt so. My experience as a designer is that someone always tried similar previous, with or without succes.

3. Were other people in the past 400 years simply too unimaginative to have come up with this?

bomancreative reply: That I don't know, but some of the most simples ideas are so close in front of us we don't see them. Sometimes all the trees shadows for the forest!!

Or..

1. Are there technical constraints that make it highly undesirable, even if not impossible?

bomancreative reply: If they can fly to the moon, build a tourbillon watch and make the world turn around it should be possible to tip a minute hand 90 degrees. Still not sure if Dolly Parton can turn over and sleep on her stomach!

And if so, what are those constraints?

bomancreative reply: I joined this forum as one of the sources to find out.

And what really are the benefits if this is done?

bomancreative reply: That is the only one I won't follow up on (for now) - theres has to be a little for me to reveal as a designer. But sure - if possible there are MANY things I can think about. I.e. the bottle opener was not useful in stone-age as we didn't had any bottles!

I myself can see a lot of reasons why this has not been done, and why it is not a good idea, seen from a technical and business side of things, even if it's a harmless idea.
bomancreative reply: Feel free to share - I really wanna hear too.

For other replies to this post, I kindly remind you my original question: Does anyone know if it is possible to build a "vertical" minute hand or have seen one in a previous watch?

Thank you.

Claus
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,982 Posts
Feel free to share - I really wanna hear too.

Claus
Some possible technical problems: in random order

1. Taller pinion - needs existing movements to be redesigned or modified (= increased cost)
2. Increased possibility of the hand warping - and becoming more visible when it does
3. Taller cases - to accommodate the increased height of the pinion, and/or taller (more bubbly) crystal
4. Makes it more difficult to level - as it is more rigid in the vertical axis, for the same reason that beams in buildings are. Horizontal second hand can be "bent" if necessary to achieve perfect horizontality

And all these small problems require adjustments in the movement, etc, and all that translates to increased cost of production, as it would require new machines to fabricate them - for some, if not all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,498 Posts
Three dimensional hands aren't unknown in the watch world.

The proposal is just a variation - in the extreme - on that theme.

If it were a seconds indication pointer air resistance might be a consideration.

Weight can be addressed in the parallel plane by the addition of a counterbalance to offset the mass of the extended thickness perpendicular to the dial.

The hand could be "U" shaped or slotted and a sweep seconds hand could be made to traverse through it.

I would consider a taller cannon pinon and sweep seconds pinion.

For evaluation a blade could be soldered to a tube that could then be fit over the cannon pinion.

I can't envision the desirability of the product from either a functional or aesthetic perspective.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
If Zodiac was able to manufacture the Astrographic where there is a separate disc in place of each hand, a vertical minute hand should be a lot more feasible than some would think.

Dvd CD Minidisc Data storage device Technology


Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Three dimensional hands aren't unknown in the watch world.

The proposal is just a variation - in the extreme - on that theme.

If it were a seconds indication pointer air resistance might be a consideration.

Weight can be addressed in the parallel plane by the addition of a counterbalance to offset the mass of the extended thickness perpendicular to the dial.

The hand could be "U" shaped or slotted and a sweep seconds hand could be made to traverse through it.

I would consider a taller cannon pinon and sweep seconds pinion.

For evaluation a blade could be soldered to a tube that could then be fit over the cannon pinion.

I can't envision the desirability of the product from either a functional or aesthetic perspective.
Thank you Pithy for your input,

Do you have any references to the 3D hands you are referring too?

In the rather "larger scale" design world I'm moving in such construction with a tube and blade but is it A: Possible to solder such small dimensions and B: can you change the minute pinion on a regular movement to be higher i.e. up to 2mm. If I just balance in on top I'm afraid its not a strong construction.

As for the aesthetic and functional perspective I do have both covered but I rather not reveal design concept at this point before I know how it is possible. Taste however is individual and there will be like'rs and non-like'rs.

Best...

Claus
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
If Zodiac was able to manufacture the Astrographic where there is a separate disc in place of each hand, a vertical minute hand should be a lot more feasible than some would think.

View attachment 5033793

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Hi Edian

Thank you - I did use to own what was called a Picto watch and the disc was for the hour hand which I guess might structure wise a bit stronger than the minute hand.

Thanks for your input. Best... Claus

Watch Font Strap Fashion accessory Gadget
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top