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Vintage Rolex "Aqua"

16K views 62 replies 9 participants last post by  Gianfo 
#1 ·
Hi guys,

I have the opportunity of buying a vintage gold Rolex "Aqua" circa 1950s. I've never heard -- or even seen -- this model before, in all my years of casually browsing internet sales and the like. Something tells me it's not a common oldie, but I might be mistaken here. These are the only pictures and information I can find online about this watch:

Brisbane Vintage Watches - Rolex Aqua

In person, it's quite a stunner. The blued second hand is gorgeous. Any vintage Rolex experts care to chime in regarding the history of said piece? To me, the "Aqua" labeling is interesting... Also,the fact that it is 10ct gold; most of the solid gold vintage Rolexes/Tudors seem to be 9ct or significantly higher.

Any information and comments much appreciated

Cheers.
 
#2 ·
No movement pics on a multi thousand dollar watch that is in a class of watches where authenticity is always in doubt... seems risky to me!
 
#3 ·
There are a couple of things wrong with this that concern me. The main one is the fact that it's not in an oyster case. Rolex used to market a watch here in Canada through the T. Eatons company called the Solar Aqua; it used a Tudor movement in a genuine oyster case.

Now as I understand it, the reason the Canadian version was sold as a "tudor" movement had to do with licensing agreements Rolex had; only their authorized dealers were allowed to sell "Rolex" watches in Canada, hence the difference. Since is from Australia, that restriction may not have existed.

On the plus side, the dial of this watch shows signs of radiation burns from the (i assume) radium hands; that's not something that can be "faked" easily, and it takes a few years for that to appear once the watch stops. So the dial is old and may be legit. But I'm less convinced that it's the original case. The Tudor Aqua movement was a modifed and finished ebauche from one of the ebauche companies, and as such you could swap the dial or movement from the Tudor to any number of other, lesser watches.

Bottom line: no movement shot isn't worth the risk unless you have a deeper knowledge of this brand that convinces you it might be genuine.
 
#4 ·
Hi
To me the case and crown are wrong
I never saw a Rolex with that type of case back, Rolex always used a knurled screw back case (or pop on case).
also even with Tudor and Canadian type 59 Caliber made by Fontainmelon they always had the Rolex signed crown

It does not look correct to me
sincerely
Adam
 
#5 ·
I work at a watchmakers (I'm not a watchmaker myself per se -- long story) and the watch I've linked ya'll to in pics is NOT the actual one up for sale.

It is however, essentially the same. The case and caseback are identical, (screw on jaxa style), the dial and hands are the same -- but in better condition in the one I'm thinking of buying -- and the movement has been authenticated by the experts on our team; it is Rolex signed. But again,nobody on our team has seen anything quite like it before.

If the one up for sale is a fake, I'd be suprised.... finding one online and one in the flesh that are practically identical seems highly unlikely.

The crown is also a replacement on the one I'm considering buying.
 
#7 ·
Yes there may be, but I would want to confirm it.
Wilsdorf registered the brand Aqua in March 1922, four years before "oyster"
So a non locking crown was originally used.

A
 
#8 ·
Thanks Adam. Very interesting; when I saw it I looked at the caseback and thought "odd". The idea of a replacement case came to mind, but after finding another picture of this model online I'm tempted to say that the case is in fact original.

Decisions decisions....
 
#9 ·
Thanks Adam. Very interesting; when I saw it I looked at the caseback and thought "odd". The idea of a replacement case came to mind, but after finding another picture of this model online I'm tempted to say that the case is in fact original.

Decisions decisions....
It may be. Many weird things happen with Rolex.
 
#12 ·
I will look in the bible on Rolex now.
 
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#18 ·
OK Caliber 710 was a 10.5 inch, Manual wind, sweep seconds "precision" round shaped
17 jewel
1938

So that makes sense
BUT, I searched every Rolex book NEVER that case and Caliber was used in "Precision" watch I think NOT Agua?
 
#14 ·
I searched Shiga Aritake book, he has reputedly handled every Rolex timepiece
But NO picture of Agua
 
#15 ·
The ONLY thing that concerns me is the case
I am sure movement and dial are correct
But I never saw Rolex with that case back style??
 
#16 ·
I know... Its extremely odd.

But the watch in the pics I've included is definitely NOT the watch in our shop at the moment. Identical, but not the one in question (caseback is marked with service info on the outside and slight scuff marks from jaxa abuse in the one I've handled, and dial is in nicer condition I believe); So there are at least two of these knocking about in the world. It would be a remarkable coincided if both were in aftermarket cases.

Confused!
 
#20 ·
If so cased out there and hence not a Rolex case??
 
#22 ·
it is NOT a Rolex
I would not buy it.
You would have a Rolex movement, possible re-dialed to Agua, and an incorrect case
worthless in my opinion.
a
 
#23 · (Edited)
I'm no expert on vintage Rolex, only owning one example.

But there is a website that has a lot of information on the Canadian "Solar Aqua" models:

Canadian Rolex Watches

While Rolex did a lot of strange things for North America, I have doubts about the watch that only a viewing of the inside caseback and movement can solve. I'd want to know the reference number, the serial number of the case and the type of movement inside for starters.

Another question is the gold quality. I thought that watches made for the UK and Commonwealth markets at that time would be either 9K or 18K. Watches for North America would be 10K, 14K or 18K. I have seen Rolex hallmarked cases for all of these gold fineness standards.

I was able to find an old eBay listing for another Rolex Aqua:

Interesting 1940's Rolex "Aqua" Mens Wristwatch. Rolex 10 1/2 Hunter Movement. | eBay







After looking the two dials side-by-side, I do think it is genuine Rolex product. I think the seconds hand on the eBay watch is a replacement, though. I would still want to match the inside caseback and movement, then continue the research further on the Vintage Rolex Forum:

http://www.vintagerolexforum.com/

gatorcpa
 
#25 ·
So this is not akin to say, the situation with Dennison? Rolex made movement, dial, etc, but cased up elsewhere? Rolexes in Dennison cases are still considered "the real deal" so to speak.

Thanks for the replies so far, really interesting stuff in any case!
 
#26 ·
gatorcpa: Thanks for that. I did check old listings on ebay, but must have overlooked that one! That is essentially the same watch, but in stainless steel.

The watchmaker who had a look at the one in our shop has noted: "Rolex, 10C, Cal 710, 15 jewels". I thought the Cal 710 was a 17 jewel movement... perhaps he made a mistake.

The "Aqua" in your ebay listing is also a 15 jewel movement and it has a screw down case back as per the model I've handled. Interesting stuff... but what does it all mean
 
#28 ·
OK
Based on latest reports I full believe it is 100% Genuine Rolex.
I always believed movement was and hands.
Now I am happy that the case is 100% correct too.

Maybe I mistyped it seems 15J will recheck that to-morrow.
This is a Rolex.
Not a Rolex made by Aegler but I guess Fontainmellon
 
#32 · (Edited)
True, true. I guess my point is that with precious metals involved, it would amount to being quite an elaborate effort at deception... and a costly one too.

Thanks to everyone's input we now have three examples of the -- now almost certainly genuine -- Rolex Aqua. The one from Brisbane Watches, the one gatorcpa linked us to on an old ebay listing, and the one I'm considering buying.

Pretty good collaborative sleuth work I'd say, and really interesting that it appears to be missing on records elsewhere.

Thanks again!
 
#36 ·
That IS horology
 
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#47 ·
Well, good luck with it. To get you in the mood, here's a pic of the watch that got me addicted, my father's Solar Aqua, from Eatons.

View attachment 1290710
That's a beauty! I always had a soft spot for the 'other' Rolex watches, especially the Rose dialed Tudors when I was in watch sales/repair. It's great to know that there are collectors out there that truly appreciate these timepieces! Cheers!
 
#39 ·
Thats a LOVELY watch
 
#40 ·
I'm lucky, I think, for he left me two somewhat interesting watches, this one (about which much mystery exists, because we have no idea how he afforded it, etc) and his service award watch, which is an EternaMatic Chronometer from Birks. Both being little known to 'the average man' made me look harder into them and really opened my eyes to the wonders of watches, particularly good but overlooked brands. If I'd been left a branded Rolex, perhaps I wouldn't have gotten drawn in. Who knows? I like the Solar Aqua, too, by the way, and it runs perfectly, had it completely overhauled by a careful watchmaker a couple of years ago. Sadly, the genuine original crown had been changed a long time ago for a generic Rolex type, which I've now changed for a Rolex (what's the way forward on that detail??????)
Cheers!
 
#43 ·
Beautiful stuff guys... Now the tricky question: Price.

So the watch I'm being offered is nearly identical to the "Brisbane watches" picture I posted originally. However, at some point in it's life time, the crown has been replaced with an 18ct substitute that -- whilst not terrible -- is not quite correct for this watch. I'd be looking to fit something a bit more appropriate shape-wise... ideally in 9ct/10ct gold.

The watch was serviced 5 years ago, and that was when the crown was swapped out for some unknown reason. So there's the cost of service to consider too, but I should be able to get a decent price on that through the shop. The seller seems adamant to get roughly 1,650 USD for it.

As we've discerned in this thread, this watch isn't something you see everyday. As such, it's probably quite collectible because of its obscurity.

so, 1,650 USD + service + new strap, (and one day a new crown) what do you think?
 
#49 ·
Well, a similar watch went at a trade auction this weekend just passed, and achieved £400 (USD$650). It's a gold cap case. As you can see, there is some wear on the lugs. And it hasn't been serviced. So if a dealer were to buy it, replate it (most likely) and service it, stand behind it, I guess I'd add another $200 in actual costs. Working this through, I suppose it likely that they would then be looking for something in the region of $1200-1400 or thereabouts.
But of course the watch in question isn't the same, just the same period and possibly the same movement inside. So not much help, but does suggest a price point, I think.

Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Jewellery


Beautiful stuff guys... Now the tricky question: Price.

So the watch I'm being offered is nearly identical to the "Brisbane watches" picture I posted originally. However, at some point in it's life time, the crown has been replaced with an 18ct substitute that -- whilst not terrible -- is not quite correct for this watch. I'd be looking to fit something a bit more appropriate shape-wise... ideally in 9ct/10ct gold.

The watch was serviced 5 years ago, and that was when the crown was swapped out for some unknown reason. So there's the cost of service to consider too, but I should be able to get a decent price on that through the shop. The seller seems adamant to get roughly 1,650 USD for it.

As we've discerned in this thread, this watch isn't something you see everyday. As such, it's probably quite collectible because of its obscurity.

so, 1,650 USD + service + new strap, (and one day a new crown) what do you think?
 
#44 ·
Thinly traded markets tend to be 'what ever it takes to make the deal' pricing. Finding comparables is difficult.

Anything else is just a guess... I don't guess with other people's money. (I don't understand why people don't ever thank me for that... oh well :-s)
 
#45 ·
Thinly traded markets tend to be 'what ever it takes to make the deal' pricing. Finding comparables is difficult.

Anything else is just a guess... I don't guess with other people's money. (I don't understand why people don't ever thank me for that... oh well :-s)
I understand your sentiments. Rolex Precisions in 9ct gold -- and in decent condition -- tend to sell for quite a bit more than 1,650 USD. Other than that, I'm not sure what to compare the Aqua with.

Hmmmm.

PS -- I'm haunted by an experience years ago when I missed the opportunity of buying a beautiful 9ct precision (coined edge and "the full works" so to speak) at a realllly good price. But like you say, with this model it's hard to ascertain what a "good price" is.
 
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