Vostok classification database draft

Seele · Jul 16, 2010

The Maiers did a great job in their page on distinguishing between some Vostok sports watch models, but I have a feeling that a more comprehensive list can be drawn up. Let's make a start:

Amphibia: "0" third digit means stainless steel case

Case type: 350
Characteristics: swivel lugs

Case type: 420
Characteristics: "oversize" round case

Case type: 710
Characteristics: current model Ministry case

Case type: 060
Characteristics: long case with hidden lugs

Still need to find: case type numbers of octagonal case, small round case (which might be 920, requires verification), tonneau case etc, and add period of production for each and movement(s) used.

Komandirskie: "1" third digit means chrome plated brass, "9" means titanium nitrite plated brass.

Case type: 34x
Characteristics: "Generalskie" type case with smoothly extending crown guards.

Case type: 92x
Characteristics: round case

Case type: 21x
Characteristics: case with "stepped extensions towards the lugs, very small crown guards.

Case type: 43x
Characteristics: round case with angular tapering lugs and wide crown guards.

Case type: 81x
Characteristics: round case with flared lugs and small crown guards.

Case type: 53x
Characteristics: star shape case with 2 o'clock crown, first made as Generalskie, from 2004-5 sold as Komandirskie.

Still need to find: information on other case designs such as two types of cushion case. There might be a further variation of the non-star "Generalskie" case.

It would be nice if my learned members can add to this as a reference source.

nht · Jul 16, 2010

Gret job :-!

some more:

Amphibia

Case type: 470
Characteristics: Octogonal case

Case type: 630 / 1190
Characteristics: 300m tonneau case

Case type: 960
Characteristics: recent "Neptune" case

Case type: 420
Characteristics: current round case

---------------------------
Komandirskie

Case type: 33x
Characteristics: case with 2 o'clock crown

Seele · Jul 16, 2010

Thanks NHT; keep'em coming! :-!

There are two similar cases as seen at Mark Gordon's site, Nos. 0769 and 0771; I have to find a good distinction between them. Also, the round Komandirskie case have at least two versions taking different size movement spacer rings; this needs investigation too. Such is the fascination - or quagmire that is Vostokology!

roo7 · Jul 16, 2010

Great list, however, can we add photos to it ? :think:

Seele · Jul 17, 2010

roo7 said:
Great list, however, can we add photos to it ? :think:

Roo7,

I would like that; right now I am preparing the list, with movements used and on-line references, I can start a pdf file detailing each case type if fellow members can supply me with pictures. Naturally it is meant to be constantly udpated and available for download, or for me to send to individuals by request too.

To that end I'd like to have clear pictures, front and back and perhaps sides too. I will, of course, take pictures of mine when I have the time, but I have but a simple digital compact; using my usual 4"X5" monorail and Goerz Red-Dot Artar would be a bit of an overkill!

Thank you! :-!

Seele · Jul 17, 2010

Just to make a start, here are the draft entries for a few Amphibias. I would be very grateful if my learned fellow members can offer comments, additional information and corrections, and also periods of production too.

Case type: 350
Characteristics: round case, swivel lugs
Movement: 2209, 2214
Reference pages:
Phil:
http://www.netgrafik.ch/images/vostok_space2.jpg
http://www.netgrafik.ch/divers1.htm
http://www.netgrafik.ch/divers2.htm
Mark Gordon Nos. 0662, 0754, 1135, 1298
Michele Cuoccio:
http://russianwatches.altervista.org/Dsc02168.jpg
NHT:
http://nht.no.sapo.pt/Relogios/actual/Vostok_Amphibia.jpg
http://nht.no.sapo.pt/Relogios/actual/Vostok_Amphibia_White.jpg

Note: Although the Maiers' page shows one with flat-ended Amphibia crown, it has date (presumably 2214 movement) and regular Amphibia hands. Those shown by Phil have dome-tipped crowns and earlier forms of hands, including one with paddle hands. Mark Gordon's 0662 also shows dome-tipped crown, but with unusual combination of hands and a Komandirskie-signed dial with date, powered by a 2214 movement. An example was used by Yuri Viktorovitch Romanenko in the Soyuz 38 space mission, September 1980.

Case type: 470
Characteristics: octagonal case, often with dial signed Albatross
Movement: 2409, 2409A
Reference pages:
Phil:
http://www.netgrafik.ch/infantry-watches9.htm
http://www.netgrafik.ch/vostok-albatros.htm
http://www.netgrafik.ch/vostok-radio-room.htm
http://www.netgrafik.ch/sport-watches14.htm
Mark Gordon Nos. 0115, 0740, 0787, 1195, 1245
Michele Cuoccio:
http://russianwatches.altervista.org/Dsc02107.jpg
http://russianwatches.altervista.org/Dsc02108.jpg
http://russianwatches.altervista.org/Dsc02113.jpg
http://russianwatches.altervista.org/Dsc02124.jpg
http://russianwatches.altervista.org/Dsc02119.jpg
NHT:
http://nht.no.sapo.pt/Relogios/actual/Vostok Amphibia Antimagnetic - CAEAAHO B CCCP.jpg
http://nht.no.sapo.pt/Relogios/actual/Vostok Amphibia Azul Branco.jpg
http://nht.no.sapo.pt/Relogios/actual/Vostok Amphibia Antimagnetic.jpg
http://nht.no.sapo.pt/Relogios/actual/Vostok_Amphibia_Albatros.jpg
http://nht.no.sapo.pt/Relogios/actu...ros Marine Border Patrol - CAEAAHO B CCCP.jpg
http://nht.no.sapo.pt/Relogios/actu...tros Radio Room Operator - CAEAAHO B CCCP.jpg
http://nht.no.sapo.pt/Relogios/actu...atros Radio Room Operator - Polished Case.jpg
Robert Prochowicz:
http://www.ussrwatches.info/main.php?g2_itemId=2466
http://www.ussrwatches.info/main.php?g2_itemId=2931
http://www.ussrwatches.info/main.php?g2_itemId=3037
http://www.ussrwatches.info/main.php?g2_itemId=3045
http://www.ussrwatches.info/main.php?g2_itemId=3077
http://www.ussrwatches.info/main.php?g2_itemId=3083
http://www.ussrwatches.info/main.php?g2_itemId=3085
http://www.ussrwatches.info/main.php?g2_itemId=3087
http://www.ussrwatches.info/main.php?g2_itemId=3135
http://www.ussrwatches.info/main.php?g2_itemId=3147
http://www.ussrwatches.info/main.php?g2_itemId=3171
http://www.ussrwatches.info/main.php?g2_itemId=3173
http://www.ussrwatches.info/main.php?g2_itemId=3177
http://www.ussrwatches.info/main.php?g2_itemId=3191
http://www.ussrwatches.info/main.php?g2_itemId=3235

Note: Mark Gordon's 1195 is fitted with a Komandirskie MOD dial with date and powered by a 2234 movement. Robert Prochowicz's 3037 appears to have a 2414 movement and Komandirskie hands, which may or may not be original. Most, if not all of them are equipped with a soft metal antimagnetic shield covering the back of the movement. Examples have been documented with polished or brushed finish on the case.

Case type: 960
Characteristics: "Neptune" case, single lug in middle
Movement: 2409, 2414b 21-jewel and 31-jewel
Reference page:
Ed Brandwein:
http://edscorner1.blogspot.com/2009/12/another-interesting-old-vostok-amphibia.html
http://edscorner1.blogspot.com/2007/10/vostok-neptune-review.html
Phil:
http://www.netgrafik.ch/divers3.htm
Mark Gordon Nos. 0208, 0547
NHT:
http://nht.no.sapo.pt/Relogios/actual/Vostok Amphibia Blue Diver - Neptnue Case.jpg
http://nht.no.sapo.pt/Relogios/actual/Vostok Neptune Blue.jpg
http://nht.no.sapo.pt/Relogios/actual/Vostok Neptune Brown.jpg

Note:
Originally a variant of the Amphibia case with a slightly oval shape, it was first made with brushed finish and a variety of dials. Most are with 21-jewel automatic movements with date, Mark Gordon's 0280 is powered by a 2409, however. Later on, the case was used in the Neptune series with a distinctive dial design, polished finish, and equipped with 31-jewel version of the automatic movement.

(updated 18th July 2010)

michele · Jul 17, 2010

Excellent work. We can make this thread as a "work-in-progress" project. |>
I'm also glad that i finally know the exact code for octagonal cases.

Seele · Jul 17, 2010

michele said:
Excellent work. We can make this thread as a "work-in-progress" project. |>
I'm also glad that i finally know the exact code for octagonal cases.

rproch · Jul 17, 2010

Maybe somebody would like to do that on www.ussrwatches.info ?

Seele · Jul 17, 2010

rproch said:
Maybe somebody would like to do that on www.ussrwatches.info ?

Hi Robert,

Thanks for offering me your online resource of your impressive collection :thanks

Right now I am still not quite sure how the final result is going to be: it could very well be a post on here - or in the "Articles" section, where the links would make sense for reference purpose. Alternatively, I can make it into a printable pdf file, downloadable from here or somewhere else, which can be updated when the time arises. In the latter case, I would just have to make a selection of pictures to illustration each category. After all links might not work eternally, and besides, I might have to sort the links to eliminate duplications too, and that's going to be more work which may or may not be of advantage.

I would like to hear your - and other members' opinions on this.

P.S. I have updated the entries in the previous posts, but I still need some help regarding other less-usual case types. There are different versions of the round cases without crown guards, including Komandirskie and Amphibia: the Amphibia current round case is TYpe 420 but I think there might have been a smaller size one, conjecturally Type 020, and I need confirmation of that. Seems like I need a lot of help with the round cases!

michele · Jul 18, 2010

Seele said:
P.S. I have updated the entries in the previous posts, but I still need some help regarding other less-usual case types. There are different versions of the round cases without crown guards, including Komandirskie and Amphibia: the Amphibia current round case is TYpe 420 but I think there might have been a smaller size one, conjecturally Type 020, and I need confirmation of that. Seems like I need a lot of help with the round cases!

Not only those cases. The case 420 has been modified during these years - it's lighter and cheaper now, smaller lugs, no antimagnetic shield, no luminous dot on the bezel, and perhaps it's also imperceptibly smaller (i must verify).

Oh, and there are also unidirectional bezels on Generalskie automatic cases with crown guards...i don't know if the code changes.

Anyway, i'm sticking the thread. |>

Seele · Jul 18, 2010

michele said:
Not only those cases. The case 420 has been modified during these years - it's lighter and cheaper now, smaller lugs, no antimagnetic shield, no luminous dot on the bezel, and perhaps it's also imperceptibly smaller (i must verify).

Oh, and there are also unidirectional bezels on Generalskie automatic cases with crown guards...i don't know if the code changes.

Anyway, i'm sticking the thread. |>

Thanks Michele, I do not know about the changes done in the 420 case, in fact I do not know if automatic movement and antimagnetic shield have ever co-existed in the first place as I always think that the shield would get in the way of the rotor.

The bezel, for now at least, is not an issue as I am concentrating on the case design. But the 420 case situation is indeed intriguing, if the 020 case can indeed house an automatic movement by using a more dome-shaped case back then there would not have been any need to develop the 420 case in the first place. Still, these variants exist and I certainly would like to learn more: perhaps the change in the 420 case could be classified as "420 early" and "420 late" or something :think:

nht · Jul 18, 2010

Seele said:
in fact I do not know if automatic movement and antimagnetic shield have ever co-existed in the first place as I always think that the shield would get in the way of the rotor.

Yes, there are antimagnetic shield on automatic movement... but shield is placed on the caseback.

https://www.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45499&d=1176487214

Seele · Jul 18, 2010

nht said:
Yes, there are antimagnetic shield on automatic movement... but shield is placed on the caseback.

https://www.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45499&d=1176487214

I see; I was thinking about a separate one, as seen in the Type 470 octagonals.

The 020/420 intrigue continues, and I am still nowhere near getting the hang of the round case Komandirskies either! :-(

michele · Jul 18, 2010

nht said:
Yes, there are antimagnetic shield on automatic movement... but shield is placed on the caseback.

Exactly, although the pic refers to the ultra-rare "two crowns" Amphibia

dream of the dreams :roll:

Anyway, i have an automatic, 21-jewels, USSR-made Amphibia, and the caseback is made in the same way - a thin layer of antimagnetic metal, directly welded or glued behnind the caseback.

AFAIK current Amphibians do not have that antimagnetic protection.

I wonder if the two versions (old and new) had two different codes. :think:

nht · Jul 18, 2010

michele said:
I wonder if the two versions (old and new) had two different codes. :think:

At least exist 2 different codes: 020 (old case) and 420 (new case).

I compared externally both cases (020 case is from 1991 and 420 from 2000's)

and verified that:

- Central zone (marked in red) has a lower height in case type 020...
- Both 020 and 420 cases have the same diameter.
- Caseback has a lower height in case 020 (because it has a manual movement - 2409, and case 420 has a automatic movement - 2416)

Probably case 020 is for old type Amphibia's with 2409 movement and antimagnetic shield, and 420 for recent (Don't know if older automatic Amphibia's have same code) Amphibia's with automatic movement.

At least, in all my Amphibia's, i can confirm this.

Seele · Jul 18, 2010

Hi NHT,

Thank you for showing us your comparison pictures. Would I be able to impose on you, and ask you to measure the thicknesses of the corresponding parts in the cases?

I think what Michele said was that, the 020 case can take an automatic movement if a more prominently domed case back is fitted; I do not know either way because I do not have examples to examine. He also pointed out that even the 420 case has two versions, and that I cannot verify either way for my lack of resources.

It is also possible that the 020 and 420 cases require different movement spacers, I feel that the latter needs a bigger one. If that be the case, this same change could also have been reflected in the similarly-shaped Komandirskie cases as I had checked two of them, one made for 2409 and the other for 2416, they certainly required different spacer rings of different diameters. If that be the case the Amphibia 020/420 would find parallels in the Komandirskie ??x/92x (the ??x means I do not know its appellation).

Just to add the confusion, Mark's No. 0121, which seems to be a round Komandirskie case, has the inside of the lugs showing obvious radius. Getting even more intriguing!

ecalzo · Jul 18, 2010

great great thread guys.. i told those information to other guys and i hope that they will help us all ,..... :-!

nht · Jul 19, 2010

Seele said:
ask you to measure the thicknesses of the corresponding parts in the cases?

If you mean red marked zone, 2mm in the 020 and 3mm in the 420 case.

Seele said:
020 case can take an automatic movement if a more prominently domed case back is fitted; I do not know either way because I do not have examples to examine.

Yes, it's posible.

Seele said:
It is also possible that the 020 and 420 cases require different movement spacers, I feel that the latter needs a bigger one.

Inside i saw no differences: about 36mm in diameter in both cases. As the movements also have same measure (24mm), both spacers are equal.

But i repeat, these facts are only based on the 2 cases that i compared.

Seele · Jul 19, 2010

Thank you so much, NHT; I have made a note of your observations! :thanks

Vostok classification database draft

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