Have a listen to a 6497/8 pocket watch movement… a good old nostalgic slow beat.

I have one in my Panerai Zero and it is very soothing.

Nowadays everything is high beat, so for it be be even higher beat it must be 29k+

 

Historically, I believe anything over 21.6k was considered "high beat". These days, with the ubiquity of 28.8k movements like the 2824, seems like you need to be more than 28.8k to be "high beat".

 

36000.

 

To me ^^^^^^^^^this above.

 

Anything above 21,600 for me.

 

No, don't see the point.

 

Just to learn from other watch enthusiasts.

 

To me 36kbph is high Beat.

But keep in mind that beat rate is not an indicator of quality or anything else...
You mentioned never seeing 21,600 Swiss Watch - the most commonly discussed one here is Omega Speedmaster and it beats at 21,600 (up from 18K in 321 movement)
Indeed, many watches from FP Journe, Lange, Patek, Dufour, Voutilainen, etc - beat at 18,000 or 21,600
And of course all Swiss watches powered by Powermatic 80 movement run at 21600.

 

28,800 and up

 

''Hi-beat" is a term used pretty much exclusively by non-Swiss ebauche manufacturers, like Seiko and Miyota and Sea-Gull, to describe any calibre that beats at greater than 21,600.

No doubt it means something higher in the Swiss community.

 

In 2022, 36,000 or higher is hi-beat.

 

What is higher than 36K?

 

Probably marketing, but GS that have high beat on the dial come to mind.

 

36,000 nowadays.

Anything above that and you're looking at something beyond "traditional" watch mechanics.

That said higher beat movements are largely no longer required. Technology has advanced to where a higher beat is no longer necessary to ensure better accuracy. Try to convince people of that though.

 

18,800 bph is good enough for me.

 

I would agree for a small second hand. Center second hands at les than 28800 are almost as annoying as a quartz center second hand.

 

as I have never seen a 21,600 bph Swiss watch.

You've not seen many watches then...

 

Why does there always have to a condescending arse in every thread? It's quite off putting.

 

I believe I read somwhere that historically high beat was above 21600. But today there are mechanical movements that surpass the 36000 beats that many refer to as a high beat movement. I don't think the public is really too concerned with the beats since we don't tend to use the watch as a highly accurate timing device. We don't need the 1/1000th of a second accuracy to time the events we usually use the wrist watch for.

 

I think the standards have changed since the pocket watch and dress watch era.

At this point, 36,000 seems to be the "new" standard. 28,800 seems "normal" now except for dress watches.

 

Then I prefer the sub standard.

 

Here is my high-beat - 5hz (36,000 vph)

And here is DAMN! HIGH BEAT! at 15 HZ (108,000 vph)

I have to dig out some old photos, but I also had a pleasure of playing with Tag Heuer Mikrograph, with 2 balance wheels - one at 4 hz, and one at ridiculous 50 hz (360,000 bph). And even MikroGirder which beats at......7,200,000 bph. Now thats a high beat watch. People forget that Tag did quite a bit of haute horology and created some of the most innovative watches.

 

The Frederique Constant Monolithic Manufacture is similar. It's a 40hz, 288,000 beats per minute movement with a silicon alloy "balance". I think the balance acts as the equivalent of the escapement as well.

It's "only" $5000 too.

I heard it hums....which would be kinda annoying though.

 

As I understand it, Hi-beat watches are noticeably smoother in the second hand than for example the Hamilton H-10 21600 movement. The H10 does however have a reserve of 80 hours. Are there Hi-Beat movements that will match or do better?

 

Sure. 32,768 BPS Power reserve of 120 hours. Does that work?

I guess that is roughly 360 times faster than 36,000 BPH? IDK. Its just so, so smooth, the second hand just glides
Ref: Caliber 9RA. Of course that one "doesn't count" for purists, but it gorgeous, smooth, and powerful.

 

You forgot to mention vintage zenith AF/P, vintage fabre leuba sea raider 1 and 2 but also vintage Citizen Leopards.

 

For me is 36.000 or Higher!
28.800 or minus isn't.

 

Anything higher than 28,800 vph doesn't really set the watch world alight, not like it used tk. There are a few Zenith fans of course, but generally, no one is that bothered above 28.8. The response is always lukewarm. FC, TAG, Zenith? Whatever. 1 Hz (Moonswatch) is much more exciting, and of course no one could give a rat's what a R*l*x beats at

 

Doesn't the higher beat movement have more wear?

 

Yes and they are also less prone to beat errors. In todays world of watches neither are significant as synthetic oils last much longer than the natural oils of yesteryear and even low beat rate movements can be extremely accurate.

 

28,800 and above are hi-beat movements.

 

It's 36.000 and has been ever since the days of the classic-vintage Zodiacs, GP-HFs, and King Seikos. I collect high-beats and have one of each, all at 36. It's my understanding that GP did it first, though I could be wrong.

 

I think in 2022 a conventional hi-beat is considered 5Hz (i.e 36,000 bph) or higher.

I reason this for a few things;

1). Seiko/Grand Seiko once long ago advertised 4hz movements as hi-beat, they no longer do this- but they do advertise 5hz movements as hi-beat.

2). Long ago (prior to 1980s roughly) 4Hz movements were relatively rare and faster than most modern watches of their time, however since the 1990s until recently (with slower beating movements lately), the ETA 2824-2 and 2892-2 along with Miyota 9015 etc. etc. have become the new normal and are rarely advertised as 'hi-beat' by the various wristwatch manufacturers.

Therefore in a historical context a 4Hz movement may be considered hi-beat... but certainly not in brand new watch in a modern context.

 

From what I can tell, it depends on context and who's talking. Folks in the "affordable" space tend to call 28,800 bph high beat. 21,600 is is still common, notably with the ubiquity of the NH35 movement. To folks into luxury watches, 36,000 is high beat, 28,800 is standard, or minimum, and lower than that has all but disappeared.

And BTW, why is beats per hour the standard measure for beat rate? 8 beats per second, or 4 Hz, is so much more intuitive and easier to remember than 28,800 beats per hour.

 

From what I can tell, it depends on context and who's talking. Folks in the "affordable" space tend to call 28,800 bph high beat. 21,600 is is still common, notably with the ubiquity of the NH35 movement. To folks into luxury watches, 36,000 is high beat, 28,800 is standard, or minimum, and lower than that has all but disappeared.

And BTW, why is beats per hour the standard measure for beat rate? 8 beats per second, or 4 Hz, is so much more intuitive and easier to remember than 28,800 beats per hour.

Some dress watches, like the Datagraph Perpetual Tourbillon have a pocket watch like 18,800 beats per minute. I'd say the dress watch arena is where the beat rates are typically substantially lower than 28,800.