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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Okay... I have not yet worn my newly/recently acquired Seiko 5 Superior, but I do want to know exactly what the coating/bonding type is and how to take care of it.

The seller specified that it was "gun metal." I recognize PVD, and this does NOT look like that at all. You can physically see that the metal has been darkened, take a look:






You see the shine and glimmer...that's what I had always known to be IP plating. Basically what I am asking is what is this Superior...IP or TiCN/gun metal?

Look at it on Roachman:



Skywatches.com.sg lists it as TiCN:



SNZD03J1 SNZD03 Japan Seiko 5 Sports Automatic Superior watch
SEIKO 5 SUPERIOR​

MADE IN JAPAN​

SEIKO Superior 100M Automatic SNZD03
Metal :Stainless Steel Case Case / TiCN plating one-directional rotating Bezel
Movement : Automatic
Caliber 7S36 Made in Japan
Stainless Steel bracelet
Solid stainless steel Three-Fold clasp
Sapphire crystal
Luminous hands and hour markers
A window at the 3 o'clock hour reveals the automatic day calendar.​

Casing: All Solid Stainless Steel in Grey/Black Matt/Gloss Finish

Band: All Solid Stainless Steel in Matt/Gloss Finish​


Additional information:-​

Movement: Seiko automatic caliber 7S36, 23 jewels​

Water Resistant : 100 m​

Dial Color: Grey​

Material : Top Sapphire Crystal​

Additional information:-​

- Luminous hour hands​

- See-thru case back​

-Seiko "5" symbol on crown​

- SOLID/ HEAVY Stainless steel bracelet link with 2 pushed in button​

Measurement:
DIAMETER: 41.5mm with crown, 39mm without crown
THICKNESS: 11mm​


INTERNATIONAL WARRANTY​


Thanks,

Angelis
 

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Re: Whay exactly is TiCN plating? Compared to PVD/IP/Gun metal?

Hi Angelo,

Well I studied these plating processes back about 4 years ago with regards to the various Seiko Tuna's and the various processes they were plated by, but actually have forgotten most of what I had thought I saved in my head; since now there are new processes coming down the pike every few years. I thought I was pretty much scientifically inclined or atleast I was in HS & College, but this field is totally all encompassing and quite advanced way beyond my Chemistry and Carbon Chemistry classes to say the least.

I do know that (Ticn) is called: Titanium Carbon Nitride

I think it's very much similar to the plating/coating process that the Seiko Golden Tuna SSBS018 uses, which is Titanium Nitride which gives it a hardened golden color, and the Carbon Nitride exibits a black gun metal color which naturally is the main color characteristic of carbon.

I believe it's a positive & negative atomic attraction deposition ion process applied in sheet form or a film much like saran wrap which is then ion depleted, from what science I do recall of these processes; but it's much deeper & advanced than most would think, unless they have grounding in metalurgical sciences.

I'll try to gather some information of the process and report back with another reply-

Regards,
Jimmy
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Re: Whay exactly is TiCN plating? Compared to PVD/IP/Gun metal?

Thanks Jimmy.

See, my thoughts are that PVD is a thin layer on the steel surface. Gun metal is actually a metallurgic process:


Check out the "Variants" section here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunmetal

So then, if this is not PVD, as I suspect that it isn't, and if it is indeed TiCN, how good is that; and how long will it last? Would it be affected by rubbing and buffing?
 

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So far my TICN finished SUN007 held up surprisingly aganist scratches and knocks. But a friend's SRP029 bracelet's plating didnt hold well againts scratches.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So far my TICN finished SUN007 held up surprisingly aganist scratches and knocks. But a friend's SRP029 bracelet's plating didnt hold well againts scratches.
Thanks Daron:

But you see, that's my goal..to find out how durable this coating/bonding really is. So yours is TiCN and not IP or PVD?
 

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In my experience , TiCN seems more durable than PVD. Both will scratch, but TiCN seems more resilient to WEAR, and doesn't seem to get a patina thing goin on like PVD. . It seems harder. I see scratch marks and scuffs on TiCN but not smoothing wear.

But TiCN seems more of a common process with watches made in Asia, and mostly seen on polished surfaces. If seiko beadblasted or used more brushing first, that would be the best looking surface IMO.
 

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Thanks Daron:

But you see, that's my goal..to find out how durable this coating/bonding really is. So yours is TiCN and not IP or PVD?
I hope you won't take this the wrong way, but you probably shouldn't fret about this too much. All these terminologies are used interchangeably and are similar save for minute metallurgical differences which are usually not revealed to the consumers of say, a Seiko 5. Hope that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I hope you won't take this the wrong way, but you probably shouldn't fret about this too much. All these terminologies are used interchangeably and are similar save for minute metallurgical differences which are usually not revealed to the consumers of say, a Seiko 5. Hope that helps.
Thanks to everyone who replied/viewed too.

So then, what I'm able to gather from these replies is that basically, TiCN/PVD/IP will hold up well for some time?

I sweat tremendously, even in the winter. I'm purposely saving this watch to wear then. We'll see....
 

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Hello Angelo,

Well I checked what resources I could and spent the better part of the night till around 4am this morning reading and pulling out a few books I have from my Carbon chemistry class, and a few hours today checking a few journals, as well as doing some on-line/forum archive checking.

As I mentioned in my earlier reply, I think these processes are all very similar with only slight changes in the (steps and material compounds) used in the processing proceedures.

I know your thoughts & your concerns about this (Ticn) process used on your watch, but in all reality this process to me seems very sound and of highly skilled technique with advanced very high energy current similar to that used in the "Welding" process with various media bonding agents in: liquid media submersion/powdercoat electro-Arc/EVP & PVC Vapor process/Flex-Film sheet wrapped ion deposition...

Your watch has a very advanced plating, when this process is completed it's very much like the Stainless-steel surface (absorbed like a sponge) the bonding deposition media which in this case, is the dark blackish grey color of both the (Ticn) and (soaked this agent into the surface) of the Steel maybe of 3-4 microns thickness deep.
~ Angelo, I would say not to worry about the finish!....It's very tough & durable, and actually isn't cheap by any stretch of the imagination, and usually these processes are only done on the higher grade prospex series watches or better.
~ I don't think you need to worry about it wearing off or rubbing away in areas at all, as I've had several Titanium Nitride coated Tunas, a few were used and showed some age but the coating or finish were not worn or thinned out from polishing or wear.

Best Regards-
Jimmy


Here's some plating Journal articles on more than a few processes & are highly technical, but well worth reading:

1. Journal Article
TitleWear behaviors of ceramics TIN, TIC and TICN with Arc ion platingExcerpt...wear process, TiC, TiN, and TiCN coatings of thickness about 5 μrn — 6 μm coated by Arc ion plating deposition method were tested. The...DOI10.1007/BF02982429JournalJournal of Mechanical Science and TechnologyIssueVolume 17, Number 12 / December, 2003AuthorsSeong-Mo Oh, Bong-Goo Rhee and Bong-Soo JeongSubject CollectionEngineeringFull TextPDF (640.6 KB)
2. Journal Article
TitleEffects of deposition temperature and time on the surface characteristics of TiN-coated high-speed steel by arc ion platingExcerpt...characteristics of TiN-coated high-speed steel(AISI M2) by arc ion plating. The microparticles, surface roughness, microhardness, coated layer thickness, adhesion strength, and atomic...DOI10.1007/BF03026961JournalJournal of Mechanical Science and TechnologyIssueVolume 21, Number 4 / April, 2007AuthorsHae Ji Kim and Man Soo JounSubject CollectionEngineeringFull TextPDF (2.0 MB)
3. Journal Article
TitleEffects of Ti0.5Al0.5N coatings on the protecting against oxidation for titanium alloysExcerpt...1.5Zr-0.3Si) and silicon substrates using a cathode arc ion-plating system. The microstructure, composition, phase structure, and oxidation-resistance of the alloys...DOI10.1007/s12598-010-0027-1JournalRare MetalsIssueVolume 29, Number 2 / April, 2010AuthorsQiang Ru and Shejun HuSubject CollectionChemistry and Materials ScienceFull TextPDF (2.2 MB)
4. Journal Article
TitlePerformance of Uncoated and Coated Carbide Tools in the Ultra-Precision Machining of Stainless SteelExcerpt...tool coated with 0.5 µ m TiN, 5.5 µ m TiCN and 0.5 µ m TiN) in the ultra-precision machining of...DOI10.1007/s11249-004-8093-xJournalTribology LettersIssueVolume 17, Number 4 / November, 2004AuthorsW.Y.H. Liew, Y.G. Lu, X. Ding, B.K.A. Ngoi and S. YuanSubject CollectionChemistry and Materials ScienceFull TextPDF (630.8 KB)
5. Book Chapter
TitlePVD-BeschichtungstechnologieExcerpt...oder ausgewählte Kunststoffe, beschichtet werden können. Insbesondere mit dem Magnetron Sputter Ion Plating-Verfahren (MSIP-Verfahren) und mit dem Arc Ion Plating-Verfahren (AIP-Verfahren...DOI10.1007/978-3-540-93936-8_37BookMedizintechnikPartVIAuthorMarkus K. LakeSubject CollectionEngineeringFull TextPDF (852.0 KB)
6. Journal Article
TitleProperty improvement of multilayer TiN/Ti films with C+ implantationExcerpt...carbon ions have been implanted in TiN coatings deposited by multiarc ion plating. The Vickers microhardness of the C + -implanted TiN films increased with the...DOI10.1007/BF02917158JournalScience in China Series E: Technological SciencesIssueVolume 40, Number 5 / October, 1997AuthorsZhiyong Zhao, Tonghe Zhang, Hong Liang, Huixing Zhang and Xiaoji ZhangSubject CollectionEngineeringFull TextPDF (386.7 KB)
7. Reference Work Entry
TitleManufacturing EngineeringDOI10.1007/978-3-540-30738-9_7BookSpringer Handbook of Mechanical EngineeringPartPart BAuthorsThomas Böllinghaus, Gerry Byrne, Boris Ilich Cherpakov (deceased), Edward Chlebus, Carl E. Cross, Berend Denkena, Ulrich Dilthey, Takeshi Hatsuzawa, Klaus Herfurth, Horst Herold (deceased), Andrew Kaldos, Thomas Kannengiesser, Michail Karpenko, Bernhard Karpuschewski, Manuel Marya, Surendar K. Marya, Klaus-Jürgen Matthes, Klaus Middeldorf, Joao Fernando G. Oliveira, Jörg Pieschel, Didier M. Priem, Frank Riedel, Markus Schleser, A. Erman Tekkaya, Marcel Todtermuschke, Anatole Vereschaka, Detlef von Hofe, Nikolaus Wagner, Johannes Wodara and Klaus WoesteSubject CollectionEngineeringFull TextPDF (16.1 MB)HTML
8. Journal Article
TitleStructural and phase transformations in electrical spark modification in a ceramic-ceramic systemCategoryRefractory and Ceramic MaterialsDOI10.1007/s11106-006-0117-7JournalPowder Metallurgy and Metal CeramicsIssueVolume 45, Numbers 11-12 / November, 2006AuthorsI. A. Podchernyayeva, V. M. Panashenko, O. N. Grigor’ev, A. D. Panasyuk and V. I. SubbotinSubject CollectionChemistry and Materials ScienceFull TextPDF (268.0 KB)
9. Book Chapter
TitleLaser-Based Rapid Prototyping ProcessesDOI10.1007/978-0-387-72344-0_9BookLaser Fabrication and Machining of MaterialsPartIIISubject CollectionEngineeringFull TextPDF (1.5 MB)
10. Journal Article
TitleElectrodeposition of composite chromium coatings from Cr(III) sulfate-oxalate solution suspensions containing Al2O3, SiC, Nb2N, and Ta2N particlesCategoryNanoscale and Nanostructured Materials and CoatingsDOI10.1134/S2070205110010119JournalProtection of Metals and Physical Chemistry of SurfacesIssueVolume 46, Number 1 / January, 2010AuthorsN. A. Polyakov, Yu. M. Polukarov and V. N. KudryavtsevSubject CollectionChemistry and Materials ScienceFull TextPDF (407.3 KB)
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Thanks so much Jimmy! Now, with all of the info that you (and others) have provided, my decision has been made...and that's to not worry about the TiCN somehow getting bombarded by my sweat, as well as it being able to withstand scratches, especially on the scratch-prone areas.

Thanks again to you Jimmy, and to everyone who responded.
 

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Hey Angelo,

lol,
you know that your always welcome and well recieved by me. I always try to help when I can & will continue to do so.

No worries as you have come to realize, you bought it because it spoke to you very strongly and I know how tough it was for you to find this 2nd example!

So as you just mentioned & as the guys have said, wear this beauty of a watch with no fear about the finish & enjoy it in peace and happiness!

"There's only one life and will soon be passed, only what's done for Christ will last"

Cheers & best regards Angelo-
(Hebrews 4:16)
Jimmy
 

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I am not all that much learned about all these processes but if anyone is considering TiCN, don't be afraid. I am wearing my Seiko, I would say, every other day. 2 years and still looks shiny and is very scratch resistant. If yo touch the surface of plated TiCN, you will know why. It isn't hard that much on the surface and that seems to "absorb" countless hits to my bracelet or casing. I know this is very much old thread but people might want to know "real life" of watches that are TiCN plated. Go for it if the price is OK. TiCN will hold probably better than you excpected it to hold
 
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