What's the age of the watch? I have a couple of marriage watches that were professionally restored and they're getting +/- 8-10. Not bad considering they're 115 and 130 years old.

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What's the age of the watch? I have a couple of marriage watches that were professionally restored and they're getting +/- 8-10. Not bad considering they're 115 and 130 years old.

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It's about 100 yrs - it's a 1918 Illinois Grade 403 - and as I said, unknown service history (and haven't fiddled with the regulator - although IIRC, it may already be "slowed" as much as it can be (need to check the regulator when I get it back - if it hasn't been, I'll just fiddle with the screw a bit).

It's second on the list for getting a service/cleaning - the first up is my Waltham, which is tough to wind (a sure sign of gunk in the mainspring) - but after that, I'm hoping to improve the performance of the Illinois.

But even so - is +20 Spd "normal" or "acceptable" or something to worry about?

 

I wouldn't worry about it but definitely get them serviced. It's worth the ~$75.

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Um... service on these suckers is now around $2-300 for disassembly and cleaning.

I don't know where you're going to get it done for $75...

 

For a pocket watch of unknown service history I have no expectations. They may not even run.

A high grade watch can readily be able to be timed to under 10sec per day. The older standard unadjusted grades may be more like 20/30sec per day, or more. It's difficult to give such a generalisation as it does depend on the watch. Some will be capable of better, some not, depending upon their age, design, materials, and finish. Of course they must be in good mechanical condition and properly serviced and regulated to achieve their potential. It also depends upon having experienced and skilful watchmakers/repairers capable of diagnosing issues and willing to go to the lengths required to properly rectify them.

 

For a pocket watch of unknown service history I have no expectations. They may not even run.

A high grade watch can readily be able to be timed to under 10sec per day. The older standard unadjusted grades may be more like 20/30sec per day, or more. It's difficult to give such a generalisation as it does depend on the watch. Some will be capable of better, some not, depending upon their age, design, materials, and finish. Of course they must be in good mechanical condition and properly serviced and regulated to achieve their potential. It also depends upon having experienced and skilful watchmakers/repairers capable of diagnosing issues and willing to go to the lengths required to properly rectify them.

Well, I got more details from him:

+20 sec 0.2 beat error and 250° amplitude and in the pendent position +15 sec 0.8 beat error and 235° amplitude.

That sounds pretty good to me! I mean the beat error could be better, but still, for a 100 year old watch that probably has only been serviced a couple times in the last decade or two? Pretty solid.

 

A lot of vintage pocket watches are low jewel count and have several bushings in them which are often worn, which results in a lot of positional variance as the wheels have excessive play. The more jewels it has, the better it’s likely to run. A 100-yr.-old, 23-jewel Hamilton 950 may run within +-5 sec./day in all positions with just a cleaning, but a 7-jewel may be lucky to get within +-40 s/d in all positions with its original bushings. Most owners are happy with that as they just want to display it and have it startup when they wind it to show it off. If it’s going to be spending most of its time running in a single position, like hanging by it’s pendant in a glass globe, let your watchmaker know that and they can adjust it with a bias towards that position to improve it’s accuracy while hanging there.

 

I end up actually wearing mine somewhat regularly - my open face most, right now (because it has a crystal). I'm hoping to start wearing the hunter more, once it has a new acrylic crystal (I know, heresy, but I actually wear watches, and hope to hand these down one day).

My open face is in dire need of a service, so I want to "put it to bed" until I can get it to my watch guy.

The hunter that I'm asking about is a 15j grade 403 - which is a decent movement, but I didn't know what the performance characteristics were.

 

I have been going through alot of my pocket watches and also repairing some for friends here lately. I always try to strive for 15 spd on the adjustments.
I just did a Elgin that was 136 years old and had not run in 35 years. A family heirloom that a friend of mine had.
I took it apart and gave it very good cleaning and it came out with crown up -4 spd and when laying flat face up it was at +14 spd. I was impressed. So, it is possible.

 

Interesting conversation string. Thanks for posting. I havent thought about this for some time.
I am going to measure the accuracy of my Gruen & Son (Assman movement) and see how it is doing.

 

Picture didn't get in there...

 

Alright.

OT and I won't post OT here again - post (or message me) if you know, please:

Anyone know of a good source for cases?

• 18s
• 10, 14 or 18k gold filled or coin silver
• full Hunter
• key-wind
• period: 1870s

I see that @gdanko said San Diego area - won't do me any good now. Lived there years ago. I'll have to hit up my watch guy.

Some of the performance specs mentioned here are rockin'! I've got a couple of non-runners.

 

eBay has been my source for cases. Usually with movements already in them...

 

I find the timekeeping accuracy to be subjective. How important is it to you? For me, I'm a perfectionist. If I can get one of my watches to around +-10 per day, I'm ok but not super happy. Staring at things on my machine like beat error and amplitude often has me readjusting the hairspring collet to at least eliminate beat error. But I will freely admit to getting frustrated at my lack of skill when it comes to figuring out why the watch keeps excellent time in one position but loses a ton in another. My hamilton 950 is around +-10 seconds and it took a new staff, replaced cock jewel, hours of poising the balance and straightening it, just to get it there.

I'm also fortunate enough to have the tools and ability to service these pocket watches myself, so that's one in the plus column. But there are times where I seriously consider finding a superior professional to handle business. Based on my experience in the industry (father and grandfather were both in the business) $200 to $300 sounds about average for cost. Seems pricey, but that boils down to how much it's worth it to you to have your watches keep really good time.

As others have pointed out though, low jeweled movements tend to exhibit more wear in their bushings after 100+ years than high jeweled movements and that certainly can affect timekeeping. But a highly skilled watchmaker should be able to rebush them if you're willing to pay.

As for cases @JNottoli I'd also love to know a good source. I wind up picking and choosing off of the eBays and they can get pricey there. Though lately I've been getting partial to the salesman display cases (crystal on both sides) because I love how they show off the beauty of the movements.

 

I find the timekeeping accuracy to be subjective. How important is it to you?

Honestly, it's not super important to me other than as a gauge of whether the movement is in "good repair."

I track these things only insofar as I need to so I can intervene before something breaks - but without a baseline, I have no idea whether I should be concerned or not.

My gut says +20 Spd is acceptable, and might be able to be dialed in a bit more - but there's nothing broken making it run entirely out of whack (especially with the beat error and amplitude I'm getting off that movement).