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I know that it's a raw form of a Grand Seiko movement (9S55?). I definitely know it's expensive. But what makes it that much higher grade than the 6R15? Why is it being compared to Rolex's 3135?

After a lot of anticipation, I just got my brand new MM300 from Higuchi and have been testing the watch out, as I do with all my new watches. I think I may have gotten a lemon, because PR was only 41 hrs, and that was after quite a bit of winding. Furthermore, the date takes an hour to change, not instantaneously like Rolex's movement (and frankly, ETA's 2824-2) does.

Accuracy is another issue I'm having. I know the 8L35 is rated to -10/+15 sec/day, and after a full wind, my watch gets +12 sec/24 hours. I suppose that can be regulated, so it's not a huge deal, but I would like a watch this price to do better than that. But what really bugs me is that at 30+ hours into the PR, timekeeping goes awry and the movement picks up close to a 1 sec/hr. I understand a lot of movements lose isochronism as PR diminishes, but 30 hours into a movement capable of 50+ hrs shouldn't cause this loss of precision. My 3135 gets a tiny bit faster after a day, but not a whole lot more than when PR is full.

I really, REALLY wanted to love this watch. Part of my love for mechanical watches is the movements, and I really had high hopes for the MM300. I still like the watch because I love the way it looks, but so far, the movement is a bit of a disappoint. Again, maybe I just got a bad one. I've contacted Katsu to see if I can trade it in for a new MM300. Hopefully the next one won't have these same issues.
 

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Are those the results after at least 2-4 weeks of ticking?

Are those the results after at least 2-4 weeks of ticking? Since things might change (and stabilize) after that initial run-in!
 

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Re: Are those the results after at least 2-4 weeks of ticking?

I had the MM300 for a while just to see what the fuss was all about & it consistently gained about 15 to 20 secs/day....not much difference from a cheap Seiko 7S26 movt. Some movements improve with "running in" but some simply don't. My Fortis B42 Marinemaster (ETA 2836) gained 12 secs/day 1st few weeks but finally settled at +5 to +6 secs/day after 3 months. My current Omega PO gains about 10 to 15 secs per MONTH (even at various resting positions) & has stayed pretty much the same over the last 7 months or so. Incredible accuracy for a mechanical watch & probably the most accurate mechanical watch i ever had even when compared to Rolex & IWC.
 

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Re: Are those the results after at least 2-4 weeks of ticking?

... My current Omega PO gains about 10 to 15 secs per MONTH (even at various resting positions) & has stayed pretty much the same over the last 7 months or so. Incredible accuracy for a mechanical watch & probably the most accurate mechanical watch i ever had even when compared to Rolex & IWC.
Those co-axial calibers have been indeed reported (IMHO with a reliable statistical relevancy) as very, very accurate mechanical models - I would just add the observation that when that starts to change (at around 2-3 years of actual use) it is a very clear and direct sign that the watch needs a preventive service!
 

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Hello Dave...the movement needs to be run into the break-in period

and that comes with some months of use. But I can see that you would prefer a closer tolerance out of the box & that I suppose is understandable.

Accuracy is an open ended question that really has no diffinitive bedrock scale to measure against when completely new & out of the box except for the standards as published for the caliber.
Naturally it varies from identicle twin movements to families of calibers. But thankfully these calibers can be adjusted in multiple positions to exacting accuracy, under variables that would throw other movements out of whack that come in watches costing thousands of dollars. (I realize you know much of this, just mentioned it for the new guys on the block)

I hear you concerns, but these things rarely run to perfection out of the box & need to be worn consistantly and broken-into the pattern of accuracy over a period of time, atleast this seems to be the routine with many upper level Seiko Calibers. (Multi-Positional accuracy seems to usually compensate and correct itself, when let run normally in the main 2-3 various positions)

One things for sure,
this movement will be running for years without the usual need for a complete service, unlike most of it's Swiss counterparts IMHO. :p

Hopefully Katsu can get you one that hit's the +/- 4 second or better mark out of the box. Then wear her regularly to the break-in area, then if you want to have the regulation tweaked to make her "breath" better, go for it mate. (Randal Benson is extreamly great with these from what I've read)

Congrats on the MM & I hope she turns out to be all that you have seen and read of it over the years...

Happy Holidays! ;-)

Jimmy
 

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thread digging./... anyone can compare the 8L55?
 

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My SLA017 has been +8s/d since 19/07/17.
 

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I have 4 separate watches with the 8L35.

2 are on about +10-12 spd. 1 is around +8 spd after a few days.

The other is just in but after 3 hours is around +1 second so extrapolating gives +8 spd or so.

All are +8spd or greater in my experience.

Pretty ordinary I agree.

I have two watches with 8L55.

One is -1 spd. The other +1 spd.

Pretty extraordinary.

I'm looking forward to another 8L55 in the SLA025.
 

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I don't think 8L or 9S had proved themselves as top-tier just yet. Compare to Swiss calibers in the similar price range they are too new to consolidate their reputation. Haven't come across any long term ownership reports about their performance.

Again, a caliber's grade is strictly *not* defined by its accuracy, but by the ability to *maintain* the same level of accuracy in many years to come.
 

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My new MM300 is on about +10 as well it seems so that's 4 that are +8-12 seconds per day.

I would like to believe there is a reason why Seiko does this but it doesn't enamour me to the 8L35 at all.

I know I could get them regulated but it's a step that should have been done at the factory.

Even as a huge fan I think this is poor performance.

As a cynic I think it's a strategic product differentiation thing or a Japanese joke for those who are seeking champagne on beer budgets. It's got the potential for great accuracy but you have to go to extra effort or expense to obtain it. I'll be more wary of any future 8L35.
 

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My MM300 is running about +3 s/d, which I'm very happy with. It's definitely one of the later ones, though, from September of last year according to the date code...
 

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Accuracy is a result of a good AND well regulated movement. One of the features that make a good movement is the consistency and stability, meaning that it doesn't have large differences in performance while operating in different positions and temperatures. The not-so-great 7s movements, for example, are very inconsistent and can gain 20 secs on one position while losing 20 on another, and with some luck the average makes them acceptable.

On the other hand, one can open a Rolex and mis-regulate it to make it run at +15 spd, and it would be very consistent at that rate. Gaining 15 secs doesn't make the movement poor. This is what happens with the 8L Seikos: they are very consistent and stable, but Seiko (for whatever reason) just decided to ship them without spending any time regulating them. The accuracy problem lies more in Seiko's policies than in the actual quality of the movement.
 

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Accuracy is a result of a good AND well regulated movement. One of the features that make a good movement is the consistency and stability, meaning that it doesn't have large differences in performance while operating in different positions and temperatures. The not-so-great 7s movements, for example, are very inconsistent and can gain 20 secs on one position while losing 20 on another, and with some luck the average makes them acceptable.

On the other hand, one can open a Rolex and mis-regulate it to make it run at +15 spd, and it would be very consistent at that rate. Gaining 15 secs doesn't make the movement poor. This is what happens with the 8L Seikos: they are very consistent and stable, but Seiko (for whatever reason) just decided to ship them without spending any time regulating them. The accuracy problem lies more in Seiko's policies than in the actual quality of the movement.
Nail on head. Unfortunately most people do not understand the term accuracy or repeatability.
 
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