[Karma]

HI All,
I have read the word here and on other forums. I have never seen a definition. I suspect I have a Franken Speedy Pro. But I don't really know what is meant by "Franken". It doesn't sound like a compliment.

Thanks, Sparky

 

[TheBluePrince]

HI All,
I have read the word here and on other forums. I have never seen a definition. I suspect I have a Franken Speedy Pro. But I don't really know what is meant by "Franken". It doesn't sound like a compliment.

Thanks, Sparky

Why do you suspect you have one if you don't know what it means?

It means the watch is not all original - real original parts mixed with replica or after-market parts in/on it.

Post a pic of your watch and we'll at least tell you what it looks like from the outside or even better if you can post a pic of the movement.

 

[S.L]

Think "Frankenstein".
Something put together of parts not originally destined to belong by it's original maker.

Not necessarily a bad thing IMO but some frown upon it on principle.
I have a 'franken' Speedy myself and love it,

/Stefan

 

[S.L]

It means the watch is not all original - real original parts mixed with replica or after-market parts in/on it.

Not necessary replica/after market IMO, it can also mean ALL original parts but in a configuration never released by the OEM.

/Stefan

 

[TheBluePrince]

Not necessary replica/after market IMO, it can also mean ALL original parts but in a configuration never released by the OEM.

/Stefan

Yes, that too :-!

 

[Swiss Precision]

Not sure where the term was originated, but for many its a derogatory term.
How boring life would be it we didn't change things up a bit. "Stock" is a term used by many types of enthusiast as a 'starting point'. Could you imagine the bike world (and so many others) if they kept to the way they came from the factory. Franken Harley?!?

 

[Karma]

Hi Blue,
Well, its not quite that simple. My Speedy Pro is a Ref. 145.022 manufactured in 1971 with the original Lemania Cal. 861 movement. When I bought it it was completely original except for the hands. How do I know? The tritium lume on the dial was totally used up but the hands glowed nicely. I think the sub-dial hands are original. The replacement hands are the correct style to be original. But the Luminova on the hands is not.

I wanted good lume on the dial so I went web shopping. I found zero dials that were exactly the same as the original dial. Not from Omega, not from Frei, not on eBay, and not from other suppliers others had suggested. Frei did have a beautiful dial that they recommended for my watch (meaning it fit my case and movement and was an Omega product). But it was hybrid dial. It had an applied Omega symbol (looks great; I can see why collectors prefer the applied symbol), no "Professional" designation (it just says Omega Speedmaster) and no tritium lume. The lume designator down by the Swiss Made does not have the double T's. Thus, it is a modern version of the 1965 series of the Speedy which actually did walk on the Moon.

I bought the dial and it is on the watch now. I kept the original dial. The new dial looks wonderful. Only a Speedmaster guru would ever know the dial is not original because it does not match the later case design and the case back. But I know. I'm not sure I care. It was never a true collectors watch which I can only credit to the original Cal. 321 Speedy that did Moon walk. I can say the watch looks new and is beautiful. I also replaced the dented original bezel but the new one is identical to the original.

So, is this a "Franken" watch? If it is, it's all my fault. And I love the result.

Sparky

Edit: Oh, after all this discussion, I should tell you that the new dial's lume glows like a new watch. I sure am glad!! It would have been a bummer if the dial just went dark at night. :-!

 

[TheBluePrince]

Thanks for the detailed explanation! Some would say it's "modded", some would say "Franken" i guess. Well done for not caring - i wouldn't either. I'm all for modding watches to make them look like YOU want them to not how Omega or any other manufactuer or bores on a watch forum tell you they should look. The dial does sound like a modern genuine Omega replacement for the older dials; a great find which you did well to pickup. Enjoy! :-!

 

[jwalther]

I think "Franken" is generally used as a perjorative term-meaning a non-original watch being passed off as something it's not. On the other hand, a "Mod" watch generally refers to one altered by the owner without intent to decieve as to its true nature. I would call Stefan's Speedmaster a Mod, and a beautiful one at that :-!.

 

[watch-man7777]

I think as long as you disclose changes that could possibly effect a potential buyer's decision to buy your watch at the time of sale, fraken, modded, whatever who cares! It's your watch customize it how you want.

 

[TheBluePrince]

I don't think franken always means something being passed off as something it's not. Many people build, sell, buy and trade them with full honesty about what they are. But as another recent thread and as S.L pointed out above in this thead after my explanation the meaning is not 100% defined and means different things to different people.

 

[M4tt]

The 'in the eye of the beholder' point is very true.

For example, take this 30T2SC:

As you can see the balance bridge is not the original; it's appropriate to the 1941/42 movement, with no shock protection, but finished in gold rather than copper. For a perfectionist this would be a Franken and the value of the watch is probably reduced by as much as a third for a watch like this.

On the other hand, here is a total franken:

The case is a JLC one, the dial is from a Timefactors watch and the hands are Swatch, the movement is a Tissot 2824. Total Franken.

However, I had bought the case, with dial, stem crown and hands in the faint hope of finding the correct JLC 352 movement. Several years later, I did. I replaced the movement into the JLC:

far right!

Now, this is the correct movement in the correct case with all the correct parts (yes, even the gold crown). For all I know, the movement came from this very watch in the first place. However, the watch has had two incarnations since I have had it and the likelihood is that the watch and movement didn't come out of the factory together even if there is no indication whatsoever of this. So is the current JLC Master Quartz a franken? I'm not sure. Fortunately I have no intention of selling so it doesn't matter.

 

[EL]

In addition to the terms "franken" and "mod," you should also include "custom." There are a number of forum members that like to create custom watches with authentic Omega parts. I tend to think of custom as an "eye of the beholder" type modification that one does to a watch for their primary enjoyment and could be reverted back to original spec for resale.

For example, I customized my 2254.50 with a new dial, a new seconds hand and a new bezel. It now bears some resemblance to a PO and uses all Omega parts. Why did I do this? Because I've owned a PO and it was always a little bit thick and heavy to be comfortable on my wrist, yet I really enjoyed its features that had a bit more sparkle to them. The 2254.50 has a thinner case and lighter weight which sits perfectly on my wrist, yet its more simple aesthetics make it a bit more rugged/tool looking than the PO's bling/jewelry look. I wanted the best of both worlds, so I created this watch. I've been wearing it almost non-stop for a month and I'm still loving it.

If I ever decided to sell it, I still have the original parts from the 2254.50 and it could be reverted.

Regards,
Eric

 

[Sgian Dubh]

What the heck is a Franken watch?

A crime against watches.

 

[M4tt]

What the heck is a Franken watch?

A crime against watches

.

Bwahahaha

hahaha

How can it be bad when it feels so good?

 

[OzO]

this thread just craves the mighty Omlex

 

[M4tt]

this thread just craves the mighty Omlex

Oh if you insist!

Rolex Oyster Case, Omega 601 movement, MkII dial, Omega Dyanamic minute and hour hands, Omega 300 second hand, Grand Seiko Strap. When you want to build your personal perfect hand wind watch you have to go Franken.

When someone unwisely tells you it wouldn't last five minutes in the real world, you have to test it properly!

As used by tombraiders!

Mind you, I have to confess that El's SMP PO looks even better and is a work of daring genius.

 

[DaBaeker]

If I ever decided to sell it, I still have the original parts from the 2254.50 and it could be reverted.

Regards,
Eric

Which I believe, also applies to the OP. He did say he kept the original dial, and parts didnt he?. So-While he now has a modified or customized SpM-if the time came that he ever wanted to sell- all he would have to do is tell the "tale" even though its a bit complicated.

So-without getting too semantic about "franken" I'm going to say I think this OPs watch falls into the "exceptions to the franken rules" category. (You know? The 'Official' handbook of rules for Omega Forum terminology. I'm betting one exists-somewhere.). But still-OP (oh-and note to the op-it took me a year to figure out what 'op' stood for and I didn't want to ask-so: OP="original poster{of this thread}" is right about "franken" not sounding much like a "complimentary" term. And I always thought of the term as referring more to the unscrupulous (or less likely: the innocently unaware) seller who sold a watch as "authentic" AND "original" when in fact it was not.

But-even if the op's watch does fit the same description of a watch that could be called a 'franken' he has the story, the parts, and some proof and isnt that what a good collector is looking for? A reasonable explanation for why a watch is not in its original state? [As for effect on value? I couldnt say in a case like this.?] He has some of the orig. parts which is good, I suppose. At least its better than a 'franken' with NO explanation to what happened to it, its original parts, etc. For this reason alone-the fact that he can explain and prove, to an extent, what the history of his watch is-it should have a label less pejorative than 'franken'. Though, beats me what that term would be?

Unless 'franken' isnt always as bad or as demeaning a term as I'm imagining:think:

Perhaps I'm linking it forever to the first time I understood what it meant when the very first "100% original/authentic" SM I won on ebay turned out to be a 'franken'. It was before I signed up here @ WUS and I dont remember the watch site but the forum 'master' was a guy named Zach-who basically savaged the SM:-| along with my 1904 re-cased pocket watch. I resold** the SM 120 on ebay for a small loss because I described it as an "exc.cond. SM refurbished with authentic Omega parts at some time unknown to seller, re-dialed...etc etc" [Note-I did NOT use the term franken back then as I wasn't even sure if it was "real" watch terminology. This was back in 2006 and I stayed away from Omega's(until my WUS join date-an hour afer I bought a near mint 100% -for real-for real-SM1040 and came here to ask what I just bought. And its been a true education ever since.

**As proof of the value of WUS-knowing NOW what I didnt know then I should NEVER have resold that 'franken' SM 120-despite the trashing it got from Zac on whatever that forum was. Even with 'wrong' redial and a supposedly wrong or even non-Omega bezel-It still had the case ref# of some SM (think it was 136.xxx?)and it was pointed out the mediocre re-dial should have had 'automatic' on it because there was an cal. 565 inside.(or maybe it was the wrong cal?) So-like I said-If I'd of kept this 'franken' {which in 2006 were 1/8th the price they go for now} I'd at the least have a perfectly good cal. 565 and the case of a SM to try and build upon. I could have sourced the 'proper' dial BEFORE the prices skyrocketed! PLUS-told the hands were incorrect which was true- they were mint and I could be using them right now in my SpM auto 1140 to replace the worn ones in there now.

SO-to OP-if your really interested in knowledge about Omega-vintage or new-stick around. Its amazing what you can pick up in a year or less.--Now -because I suppose there's no other way to put it but -I tend towards cheapness and remain willing to take chances bidding on vintage ebay Omegas under-say-$400usd -"Frankens' are always an 'issue'.-At least now I know when a watch is likely to have some 'franken' about it. And because of WUS and the 'franken' issue-I have learned to chance it only with watches that are just as likely to be 100% authentic as they may be 'franken'-.[And I guess I am also claiming, in saying this, that there are degrees to 'frankeness'. I like to think the watches I'm gambling on-will only have a part or two replaced and not be a complete and total mish-mosh of parts. So there are 'frankens' and there are FRANKENS'-i submit. Though technically-one could argue its a bit like being a "little bit pregnant" :rodekaart]

So far I've been pleasantly surprised once, Stunned once(totally 100% and in much better cond. than photos) and a 3rd time I got what I expected-no more-no less-a 'mostly' orig. connie with some parts of a cal. 565 in it.

And I still say the real excitment in Omega world is going to be in the vintage market over the next coming few years. With Omegas plan already in implementation to overtake Rolex at best and at least position itself as a strictly luxury only brand for the 'haves only' and no longer the "work-hard and can haves some day". Knowing about 'Frankens' will be absolutely crucial to any serious collector/used buyer and no longer just with pie-pans, upper-end SMs and the like.

Sorry I ranted on and on-but then whats new?

p.s.- While i'm rolling along here- and -we're on forum terms: I still don;t know what it means when posters in the sales f. advertise their watches and then constantly follow the orig. post with: "bump",. Bump, bump bump. What on earth is "BUMP"?:think: (where I come from a price bump is a rise -so that doesnt make much sense.):thanks

 

[John_in_MA]

To the OP this is how I personally define it.

Franken

1. To replace original parts with non-original parts or parts from another watch of the same model from a simlar era
2. Used to deceive a buyer

Restored

1. To replace original parts with parts from another watch of the same model from a similar era or factory fresh pieces
2. Typically used by people of honest intent when it comes to sell a watch

Modded

1. To replace original parts for a particular model with original parts designed for a different model
2. Only uses original manufacturer parts.
3. No aftermarket pieces

Custom

1. To replace original parts for a particular model with parts designed for a different model.
2. A mixture of original manufacturer parts and aftermarket parts

So, your Speedy, El's SMP and S.L's speedy are Mods by my personal definition.

I had a speedy with the same dial as your's.

This is a mod.

I have this which currently has an aftermarket insert on it. It is a custom.

I made a new insert once for a SM300. Original bezel, but homemade insert. This is a custom.

This particular watch was to my knowledge a custom as I wasn't sure if the dial was authentic or not. If it was, it was a mod.

 

[M4tt]

Bumping - simply posting to take the post to the top of the forum where it will be more easily noticed.