What The Heck Is A "Franken" Watch?

Hi All,
Thanks for all the replies. I think I do have a much better idea of the meaning of "Franken". It also seems clear that there is no exact meaning to any given person. Some of the "modded" watches shown above are beautiful. I don't think anyone would object to having any of them. If they are referred to as frankin then the term is not always negative.

The one part of the definition that repeats is when the watch is sold-is it being represented honestly? If this definition holds then a franken watch is not a frankin watch until it hits the market and the deal is made. I'm not sure this definition is broad enough. I understand that the case of watches that are not original in all aspects needs a catagory but I'm not convinced that "frankin" is the word. By the way, I love the word frankin. It is so imaginative.

As for my situation, I kept all the pieces so my Speedy could be restored to its original state, grainy, yellowed, disfunctional lume and all. Would it then be declared a reincarnated franken watch? ;-) But, I don't mind it being referred to as frankin-because, honestly, I love term so much. However, I really don't like the negative baggage of the term.

I can tell you that my Speedy is both better looking and more functional than it was when I bought it. Love that applied Omega symbol. And it still looks like a genuine Speedmaster "Moonwatch". Oh, and it also works well too. I have to admit it is a bit of a sham but a very good one.

Sparky

Karma said:

Hi All,
Thanks for all the replies. I think I do have a much better idea of the meaning of "Franken". I By the way, I love the word frankin. It is so imaginative.

As for my situation, I kept all the pieces so my Speedy could be restored to its original state, grainy, yellowed, disfunctional lume and all. Would it then be declared a reincarnated franken watch? ;-) But, I don't mind it being referred to as frankin-because, honestly, I love term so much. However, I really don't like the negative baggage of the term.

I can tell you that my Speedy is both better looking and more functional than it was when I bought it. Love that applied Omega symbol. And it still looks like a genuine Speedmaster "Moonwatch". Oh, and it also works well too. I have to admit it is a bit of a sham but a very good one.

Sparky

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I probably said this before in too many words but: I don't see why anyone would refer to your watch as a 'franken' (of course-your correct-if you tried to sell it as 100% auth/orig w/o disclosing what has been dome to it then-I suppose-a buyer could accuse you a selling them a 'franken'

But that would be totally absurd. What you have-or what you did is what 100s of speedy owners would LOVE to have done to their worn out old watches. Read some of the threads where guys say "back from the spa..." which is a euphemism for: they just spent between $700 and $2000usd to have their watches redialed , new hands, and all the things your watch has done. I seriously doubt that any spm sent off to Bienne CH to be refurbished at $1000 would be advertised as a 'franken' speedy anywhere watches like this are sold. Plus-with all the original bits and pcs? I bet you probably have what a LOT of guys would consider better than an original spm. After all-the refurbishng already has been done-with proof,(the parts) your story and what they now pretentiously refer to in used watch parlance (like vint. wines) as provenance. Proof of the watches 'story' can make it worth a bit more rather than much less-like a 'franken' would be.(

But- I'm not a speedy nut. Am I wrong? It sure seems like common sense.

M4tt said:

Mind you, I have to confess that El's SMP PO looks even better and is a work of daring genius.

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Thank you! I will admit that it took me a little while to adjust to my "uber 2254" mod. I kept looking at it and wondering what it was...a PO Lite? A Fancy 2254? I was not quite sure how I felt about it during the first week or two, but now that I've worn it almost daily, it looks natural to me and honestly think it is close enough to something Omega *could* make that I have no shame in wearing this mod. In particular, the applied elements on the dial really look great and the bezel is much more refined than the original 2254.



Someone asked about "bump" and what it means. I once thought it was just a creative use of the word, like "I'm bumping into this post to push it to the front" or something. That seems plausible, but learned from someone else that BUMP as an acronym = Bring Up My Post.

Regards,
Eric

M4tt said:

Oh if you insist!

Rolex Oyster Case, Omega 601 movement, MkII dial, Omega Dyanamic minute and hour hands, Omega 300 second hand, Grand Seiko Strap. When you want to build your personal perfect hand wind watch you have to go Franken.

When someone unwisely tells you it wouldn't last five minutes in the real world, you have to test it properly!

As used by tombraiders!

Mind you, I have to confess that El's SMP PO looks even better and is a work of daring genius.

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Is that Petra and Galilee? Looks like but cant say for sure? Sorry-dont mean to pry-just curious

Second-that is a VERY cool watch you got there. It has given me a good idea {and some confidence} of what my SS Date-Just would look like with a beefy shiny black strap which is something I have been tempted to do for a while but hesitate because the oyster band is such an integral component to an otherwise dull watch. Weird how the lugs look so much longer than I can picture w/o removing band and the black/SS looks great.) So-what on earth inspired you? And is there a reason the cal. 601 has a rotor/other parts that look so much like the cal1040 rotor/mvnt? At first I thought this was a sly joke but its too serious and nice looking to be funny.(I swear I saw a pict of a rotor movmnt that looked like a 1040. But I just read 'hand wound' so I don't know whose picture I'm referring to now-sorry)

So-why am I posting yet again???

!!!o| Your 'Omlex'. Its reminding me of and giving me ideas to find/post photos of my '76/'72 Triton-another wondrous fusion-though of two classic British twins. If an 'omlex isnt a joke-(i mean-sometimes things do fly over my head:think But if it isnt-I think I'm going to have to break my own pledge to boycott 'what ______ owners drive...' threads.

Then-I'd also have to dig out this extra ( beat up, no crystal and 'bent' fluted bzl) rlx day-date case I was given (with NO plans what-so-ever for). And without the skills to build my own fused watch-I dont even know what Om movement would be appropriate for a 39mm oyster? But-After I accomplish all this and am satisfied I will then find old pics and- post my '76/'72 'Triton Comboville- (the principle thinking--was that the superior Bonneville engine placed in superior handling/stability Norton "isotonic" frame) significantly reduced vibration at high speeds which was definitely a plus {especially if you know pre-80s British twins} in the days when rear brakes were still shoes and ...heaps of different non-watch related reasons.)

But WOW! How cool would that be? Riding down a country lane with two British twins fused between your legs and two fused Swiss mechanicals strapped to your arm? Its kind of like the 'Ultimate in excess thrills and luxe- except ..... well not quite. But definitely interesting and fun.

Anyway-the below photo isnt exactly what my Triton looked like. Mine was white, built my own version od seat, ( different/not as pretty). Also- didnt have cafe racing tank either (which was pretty much one of the main reasons to fuse: racing)-so you can get a better idea of how much uglier of a hybrid mine was. But I thought it was gorgeous. And surprisingly easy to figure out ways to retrofit almost any parts from either of the two bikes. [if only my fingers could handle watch movmnt parts like cycle parts:-|] And while a '73 Norton 850 was by far the craziest and most dangerous bike fun I ever owned**-I did have a blast on the Triton for its short life-span.

**i'm thinking about all the young guys here with their new POs , Speedies, and SMs that have Ducati's, Suzukis, Buells,etc---Bikes that would literally BLOW the Norton away today. I suppose its cliche but just like I love the old Omegas-there is something about putting your trust in a '72 Laverda 750 or a '73 Norton 850 (bored out to 900 with racing Magnito ...), shoe brakes on the rear, 90mph, 70s technology...Man was it thrilling. But I wasnt a speed junkie at heart. Then I had baby girl #1. Sold out I guess? Sold 'em all and eventually settled on vintage BMWs (the 'volvo' of road bikes)

I'm sure your omlex will hold up for a lifetime w/o threatening it either.

(and so...Is the omlex a 'project' watch of your own design? or a custom pc. you had done for your own pleasure? Was it a challenge? (as in VERY difficult to build or: "bet you couldnt make a watch like...?) Not sure why at first glance I thought you were joking? Maybe because I owned that Triton and I can't tell you how many US biker guys thought I was joking at the time I rode it and how it was just-or only one 'crackpots' {me} goofy project bike . If only ...:roll

Again- Nice watch. And here's somebody else's-not my- Triton:

Slimline featherbed if I'm not mistaken, VERY nice. I did something similar with a T90 engine many many years ago. I am just old enough that the old British stuff was cheap when I was a kid and, before I went to Uni I did a couple of years apprenticeship as a mechanic. It's funny how your life changes direction...

Anyway, mine was Triumph/Greeves, a Grumph. It was a bit tall, but ultralight and with a lovely stiff frame. I'll try to find some old photos, but it looked a bit like a rough green version of this

https://flic.kr/p/3068799381
with telescopic forks. It's another classic build and rally quite easy once you sort out the engine plates and line up the chain.

Anyway, the Omlex was completely my own idea. I had the 601 rebuilt by the guy who did my watches but I posted the whole thing here:

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=250027&highlight=omlex

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=233285&highlight=omlex

And the photos are of The Valley of the Kings from above and the old British fort at the head of the Nile at Aswan.

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=250027&highlight=omlex

As for the sea of Galilee, that's fourth down!

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=127722&highlight=israel

Now I'm just showing off!

HI All,
In this thread I have read a wide variety of what people think the term Franken means. There is some agreement and a lot of disagreement. Like many words not in the dictionary, there is no fixed meaning. It is more of a "folk" term. This makes using the term very scary and maybe it should be avoided totally. It is certainly not a definitive description of a watch.

Now, I want to play devil's advocate. I will argue against myself. Clearly, none or most of you all are formal watch collectors. You may own a large variety of watches. You are watch lovers. But you are not Formal collectors. There is a big difference between the two. Formal collectors of anything, from watches, to cameras, to furniture, etc., have certain fixed rules and these have nothing to do with the size of the collection. It does have everything to do with worth. Worth is determined by an items uniqueness, availability, provenance, nearness to original condition, and market demand. Often, the original price is a factor but not always. Collectors will almost never collect modifications of the original piece. They are ALWAYS sensitive to original condition; the more original the better. The more provenances, which documents the history of the item, the better. All these things add to the value of the item. Formal collections are all about value in a very restricted market.

The exception is the odd collector who has a collection based on non-original items; that's its theme. The reason this type of collector is not a factor in the collector world is because other collectors are not interested in the odd collector's obsession. IOW, this type of collection has no value in the collector's world. Thus, I will leave this odd collector alone other than to acknowledge its existence.

Collecting watches is no different than other collections. A watch, such as my "modded" Speedy, is of no interest to the collector. Why? Because it is not original, among other reasons. If my watch had been a truly collectable Speedy, such as the original Moonwatch with the Lemania 321 movement, and the non-Moonwatch case back, and the original case, dial and hands, I would not have modified it. I also would not wear it. And what fun is that? The original Moonwatch is worth real money and will continue to appreciate sometimes in spite of condition. But my Speedy is relatively common, despite its age (1971), and thus, not worth close to the same as on original Speedy. I knew this before I considered the modification. I knew I would not lose much if anything. So, I did the mod.

If I had modified an original condition Moonwatch, a Formal collector would be justified calling the result a "Frankenwatch", a mongrel, an abortion, etc., and his interest in such would be zero. And he would be right. If the collector terms my Speedy a Frankenwatch, I could not object. It really is a Frankenwatch but the collector would not really be concerned. My watch is simply not worth enough to tickle his fancy. My Speedy is just an after thought.

Thus, I think the use of the term Frankenwatch should be correctly limited to the vocabulary of the Formal collector. From his point of view and interests, my watch is indeed a Frankenwatch and its value is limited, as are all the modded watches shown in this thread nice as they may be.

Sparky

ezinternet said:

Hi SL,

Would you please indulge us with the detail of parts that make up your white-dial Speedie ("Franken" as you put it)? Are the dial and hands Omega parts or aftermarket?

It really is a very striking look!

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Thank you.

All parts are genuine Omega and belong to different Speedmaster models. Last time I looked around on the Watchco site both the dial and hands were available there.

Some say that this is a genuine Speedy configuration (I've seen a few FS w/o any mentioning of them being put together, there was one on chrono24 a while ago for example) but as long as I cannot see some real supporting evidence of that I'm quite sure that this is not the case.
I've been told by more than one knowledgeable WIS that the dial belongs to a WG Ltd Ed Speedmaster sold exclusively in Italy.
IIRC from what I was told the hands for that model should not have any lume, so my guess is that my configuration is franken/custom (since it has a steel case and lumed hands).

For me it is one of the most beautiful Speedys I've seen and I'm a bit amazed that Omega never did one quite like this considering the number of Speedy variations they have produced. :-d

And I've taken it even further now on the franken/custom path by adding a sapphire caseback,





/Stefan

A Franken Watch? I'd say that it's this one here:



(yes, I could not resist)

Patsbox7 said:

Someone gave me a very simple explaination. Think a box of random watch parts from different watches assembled to resemble something that it isn't. If your watch just has some updated parts most wouldnt consider it a franken.

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agree.

Dr Frankenstein created a monster from body parts assembled from several cadavers. He then animated this disparate collection of dead parts into life, in order to imitate a human.

A franken watch is surely a watch assembled from parts salvaged from many others, put together in such a way that the whole loosely imitates, but does not replicate, a watch built by a factory.

A franken watch should also, by inference, be easily identified, just as the monster is easily identified from humans from which its parts are salvaged. Indeed if the watch in question started as a complete watch, I cannot see how the simile would be valid, as the parts of Dr Frankenstein's monster came from different sources.

I think it is commonly used (a little arrogantly) some by people who wish to denigrate, or derogate modified or customised watches where the builder has followed his own passions and designs, often only changing a dial and handset. Hardly a re-animation.

I would use the term if the built up watch consists of parts from more than one source, and didn't look right.