When did copies become homages?

18841 Views 537 Replies 144 Participants Last post by Fahoo Forays, 4 mo ago

zymphad

Discussion Starter · 5 mo ago

When did copies become homages? I'm curious, how this came about? To me a homage is a watch that makes reference to another iconic watch, inspiration or repurposing a desirable feature or design. For example a watch with Oyster case and sterile dial with sword hands but with Fifty Fathom like bezel, to me that would be a homage to Fifty Fathom and possibly vintage military dive watches.

But I'm curious how the WUS or watch community has come to accept copies like Steinhart, Invicta Pro Diver, or Tissell Explorer as being homages, when in fact they are copies. Homage would be pay respecting to the original. This is just ripping off the original design.

I understand some people don't like homages of any kind. I'm OK with a watch that combines features from others, and apply some flair of their own. But I see so many straight copies that are called homages and I don't understand it, since they are clearly not homages, they are copies.

And some people also seem to not able to understand a copy and replica are no the same thing. I"m not saying Steinhart or Davaso make Rolex replicas, but they certainly are making Rolex copies.

To me calling these watches homages is an insult to other watches that are actually homages, as it puts a watch with interesting character of their own in the same basket with these lame copies.

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· #40 · 5 mo ago (Edited)

BundyBear said:
100% agree with your statements.

Originals, homages, copies - all need a good and clear definition.

They do, but that's not going to happen here - not now, not for a thousand years.

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· #49 · 5 mo ago

SpeedFreek67 said:
Well I can only speak for myself here, but I don't feel ashamed at all when sporting a design copy with its own branding.

Neither do I. FWIW the "lawsuit" guitars of the 1970s and early 1980s actually gave Fender and co. a kick up the arse, as despite being way cheaper they were if anything better fabricated and put together than the stuff Fullerton was producing at the time.

I have a nice copy/homage/whatever of a hyped Tudor model, but with some changes (such as a white dial) which Tudor doesn't, and will not ever, produce. If someone gets angry at the idea of it, I'm very happy for them to do that. I mean it's sad and rather daft, but I'm not going to get in the way of their righteous fury!

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· #106 · 5 mo ago

SeikosandSwiss said:
Why would this thread get locked ? Nothing controversial nor profane, nobody attacking anyone else

Controversial, oh yes. Comes up six times a week and still everyone thinks everyone else will change their minds

Profanities? You're right there, it gets you banned.

Attacking? Mmm, yeah a little of that.

All in a day's work for the internet!

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· #162 · 5 mo ago

jmariorebelo said:
If some people call "homages" watches that most certainly aren't that, what's stopping me from calling them "fakes"?

Words have lost meaning, it's linguistic anarchy. Might as well enjoy the ride.

Exactly. "Fake" used to imply outright deception or even illegality, but we don't need to define things any more. That's so... linguistically imperialist.

In 2023, anything can be called what you want it to be called - you just say the words, and it is. Last year they called it "well I'm standing in my truth"

. We'll be seeing a lot of this this year, and it will foster degrees of mistrust and animosity in public discourse probably not seen in the modern era. Buckle up for the ride - full speed to the bottom!

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· #167 · 5 mo ago

Tjcdas said:
Happy we have an ignore feature for such dead horse topics.

I'd really like a big button where I can filter out entire subjects. You see yet another low-count outrage/disbelief post, you just clickety-click the button, then

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· #170 · 5 mo ago

bigclive2011 said:
Does squirting Cillet Bang on Pagani design watches make them take on some form of originality then?

Must try it 😂

It turns it into the (wait for it)... heh... sterile version!

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(I know, that was terrible, sorry)

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· #349 · 5 mo ago

u2ros said:
We are looking at it the wrong way. Everyone should look at this from his own perspective

Or preferably, the perspective of someone else who knows better than you.

It's been quite tricky following the whole thread, as I've squirted out quite a few of the usual mouthpieces into the Toilet of Ignorance. But it's great to see 2023 kicking off with such a righteous, wound-up bang!

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· #356 · 5 mo ago

bigclive2011 said:
These threads just keep on giving…..

And as usual my take is…buy and wear what you like…it’s your £££’s and your wrist….

However…if you start telling other members that your Pagani design is every bit as good as their Rolex, because it looks the same, or even spouting on about why they are “Douche bags” or ”Fan boys” (I hate both of these terms by the way) for spending that amount of money on them….expect kick backs.

Of course - I get the distinction, and make no claims that (say) a Pagani or even a San Martin is as good as the watch it's apeing. However, not every cheap watch out there is a direct homage/copy/clone of a watch costing $xx,000.

If I want a watch for under £200, I can do an awful lot worse than something that looks like this in close-up. Tissot's PRX is about as close as it gets, but that's 50% more, and a lot more idiosyncratic:

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· #361 · 5 mo ago

Klip88 said:
I didn’t read through all the comments, in my eyes, homage = fake/copy/counterfeit. Plenty of affordable options that don’t rip off years of curating, branding, designing, engineering, improving… you get my point.

It's words like "curating" and "branding" that somehow represent the bubble aching to be burst, IMO.

Also no one else confuses counterfeit with homage, as they know what counterfeit means. Or used to mean, back in the day, when we had words for meanings!

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· #369 · 5 mo ago

Seabee1 said:
generic acetaminophen is identical to tylenol, no difference that I've ever heard of other than the name. once the patent runs out competing pharmaceuticals can make and sell their brand of tylenol, or ibuprofin, or aspirin etc. samey samey. I've never noticed any difference in the efficacy of a generic brand

I wonder if the same argument rages five times a week over on PUS (PharmaceuticalsUSeek) whenever patents expire

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· #465 · 5 mo ago

Shutterbug57 said:
Very succinctly put. You have stated the rub well. To paraphrase, “I like your work, but will pay bubba over here to use your design language give me a cheap thrill.” It mat be legal, but it is no more moral than making a copy of a cd rather than paying the artist who created the songs.

That would require payment of royalties, otherwise it is more or less bootlegging and that is illegal. Very different, and in any event, morals - as we know - are entirely personal and subjective, however free you are to exercise them.

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· #476 · 5 mo ago

Peteworrall said:

OT for a moment but that Aerospace with its dial lit up is absolutely awesome!

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· #511 · 5 mo ago

Klip88 said:
I agree to the point of the cost not equaling the actual cost of a Rolex, or any other high end brand, but my argument really isn’t full of holes… I have worked in a consultative manner to a myriad of light industrial companies in a prior life, and standards and QC differ, corporate philosophy, end user, availability of materials, and a million other variables. I assure you the processes differ from manufacturer to manufacturer regardless of product. I don’t see how that argument is full of holes?

Until you provide referable evidence to this forum, you have no argument that Tylenol is fundamentally more effective than own-brand paracetamol, or whatever it is you call it over there. You cannot argue that Tylenol is fundamentally better unless you have a basis for that argument: "they might have better internal processes, although I don't know myself" is not an argument, but mere conjecture. Surely you see this?

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· #512 · 5 mo ago

Al.Macrest said:
I have nothing against cheap watches. I own some cheap watches, they're just not knockoffs of someone else's designs. I have a problem with theft of intellectual property. I don't like companies who do this because I don't like the idea of making money off the honest work of others.

What you have to pay for a design should be whatever the creator deems appropriate. You make it sound like it's some sort of inalienable right that if you like something, you should be able to get it cheaply. What about bootleg videos? I'm not seeing much of a difference.

Most people who don't know anything about royalties or licences don't see much difference. They just get the hump about it!

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· #516 · 5 mo ago

Klip88 said:
In the literal sense of Tylenol vs supermarket brand sure, it’s conjecture. What is not conjecture is that higher end brands have better material sciences, better QC, and more skilled labor than whatever homage brand we’re talking about. A user even provided video saying while not terrible for the price, still no comparison. You’re arguing for the sake of arguing so I’ll concede as I am tired of this stupid fight, Steinhart and San Martin are just as well built as Rolex, and Omega!

AardnoldArrdvark said:
I'm not sure Tylenol is a great example of quality control either. In 2010 they had to recall 53m bottles of contaminated tablets; this was 20 months after customers reported problems with a 'musty smell' when opening new bottles.

.

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