When did copies become homages?

18838 Views 537 Replies 144 Participants Last post by Fahoo Forays, 4 mo ago

zymphad

Discussion Starter · 5 mo ago

When did copies become homages? I'm curious, how this came about? To me a homage is a watch that makes reference to another iconic watch, inspiration or repurposing a desirable feature or design. For example a watch with Oyster case and sterile dial with sword hands but with Fifty Fathom like bezel, to me that would be a homage to Fifty Fathom and possibly vintage military dive watches.

But I'm curious how the WUS or watch community has come to accept copies like Steinhart, Invicta Pro Diver, or Tissell Explorer as being homages, when in fact they are copies. Homage would be pay respecting to the original. This is just ripping off the original design.

I understand some people don't like homages of any kind. I'm OK with a watch that combines features from others, and apply some flair of their own. But I see so many straight copies that are called homages and I don't understand it, since they are clearly not homages, they are copies.

And some people also seem to not able to understand a copy and replica are no the same thing. I"m not saying Steinhart or Davaso make Rolex replicas, but they certainly are making Rolex copies.

To me calling these watches homages is an insult to other watches that are actually homages, as it puts a watch with interesting character of their own in the same basket with these lame copies.

Reactions: 5

1 - 14 of 538 Posts

Klip88

· #360 · 5 mo ago

I didn’t read through all the comments, in my eyes, homage = fake/copy/counterfeit. Plenty of affordable options that don’t rip off years of curating, branding, designing, engineering, improving… you get my point.

Reactions: 2

Klip88

· #362 · 5 mo ago

One-Seventy said:
It's words like "curating" and "branding" that somehow represent the bubble aching to be burst, IMO.

Also no one else confuses counterfeit with homage, as they know what counterfeit means. Or used to mean, back in the day, when we had words for meanings!

So my point was to the general public a Rolex “homage” where the only difference is the printed or applied logo is a counterfeit. Respect the people who did it first, they usually do it the best. Sorry there is a difference between Tylenol and stop and shops pain reliever. They perform similarly but Tylenol is just the better option. Poor analogy perhaps 🤔

Klip88

· #365 · 5 mo ago

Seabee1 said:
generic acetaminophen is identical to tylenol, no difference that I've ever heard of other than the name. once the patent runs out competing pharmaceuticals can make and sell their brand of tylenol, or ibuprofin, or aspirin etc. samey samey. I've never noticed any difference in the efficacy of a generic brand

Could be perception, and I’m not in internal controls @ whatever drug giant owns them, but I assume quality control is better, better sourcing of chemicals, etc.

Klip88

· #373 · 5 mo ago

Mr Dennis said:
So what, this didn't contribute anything...accept you making a point, directed at your position, or where you'd like to be. Maybe you are where you'd like to be, but so what? What now? Have you helped your ego, or the companies you are a fan of?

I DO get your point, unfortunately.

um, yes help the companies I’m a fan of, not just in watches. Idk about ego? You seem triggered, bro.

Klip88

· #392 · 5 mo ago

DiverBob said:
I'd rather be the one "ripping off" than having some brand produce a watch for $1000 and sell it to me for $10,000 because years of curating. No interest in playing the brand junkie/ marketing bonanza.

I like a brand, it has treated me well, I will pay a premium for that. It’s not a “bonanza” if your insinuating buying to be a consumerist junkie. My finances are in great shape and live in an above average sustainable way. Toyota is another brand I speak about often and are on the forums of, I pay a premium for a basic vehicle but I have had outstanding experience with the brand. I won’t save money off the bat like buying a Nissan, but I know I’m getting a timing chain and not belt and a simple 4 speed transmission (now 6 speed on many models and yes I believe some yotas went to the dark side with CVT) as opposed to a CVT, it pays for itself in time. My Sub will be with me for life and I can trust it will last as such.

Klip88

· #403 · 5 mo ago

DiverBob said:
The Toyota/Nissan analogy falls short.

We are not talking about much here. A homage that runs on a Seiko automatic encased in a chunk of 316L is FAR less complicated and very likely to be ticking for many many years. In fact...it may prove to be more reliable in the end. Watches are not all that complicated assuming you start with decent movement.

And while your sub may be with you for life, so will Todd's trusty $300 SKX sans the fiction and marketing.

My analogy was the first thing that popped in my mind maybe not the best, my beef is with people automatically assuming people who buy expensive watches are brainwashed imbeciles who purchase anything because of FOMO, hype, or whatever. I like Rolex, I appreciate their contributions, nothing to do with my ego, I am loyal to a brand I respect. Just like I am loyal to a doctor, insurance broker, or financial advisor. I don’t get why people think it’s all ego stroking? I enjoy my watch simple as that, and regardless of patent expirations homages are cheap copies that have no creativity of their own. You were abrasive when you first quoted me based solely on your assumption of me based on a singular comment by an anonymous user on a message board. We can differ in opinions but why bring it to a level where you personally insult me? That is all, lol.

See less See more

Reactions: 3

Klip88

· #405 · 5 mo ago

SpeedFreek67 said:
I have no axes to grind in your above argument, but I wear homages for the same reason - I enjoy my watch, simple as that. I buy designs I like, for me to enjoy. I have a couple of homages and a majority that arent.

A problem in this whole thread is the assumption we homage wearers get from from other users here that we wear them to "flex", pretending to wear a more expensive watch in the hopes that people in bars will think we are projecting wealth. It was discussed earlier in this thread. That argument (not yours) comes from people who wear watches to stroke their own ego, and believe all watch wearers are the same. We aren't all the same, and your comment illustrates that.

Thank you for the clarity on the prejudice, and I agree with you completely I may not enjoy homages, but I truly am glad you enjoy your watch that is why we are all here! And some homage brands do go on to producing their own creative designs!

Reactions: 4

Klip88

· #421 · 5 mo ago

Speaking of advertising I’ve driven across most of the US and entering every major city there is a Rolex billboard, even in Shreveport!

P.s. no offense to LA, or Shreveport but it cannot be denied it’s a city on the decline and in a dire situation.

p.p.s @DiverBob and @SpeedFreek67 we can all be friends, we like gears and levers that make our device go tick

.

Reactions: 4

Klip88

· #475 · 5 mo ago

Peteworrall said:
"Where the only difference is the logo" - that makes it a counterfeit? If I tried to sell a Steinhart to someone, claiming it was a Rolex, how do you think that would play out when they looked at the logo on the dial. You can't credibly say a Steinhart is a counterfeit. Or, if you do, then you clearly don't understand the law.

More of a euphemism than an interpretation of law, I never claimed to be a J.D. on patent law or copyright law. This is a watch forum, but if you can share exact statutes that would be a great contribution I suppose.

Klip88

· #488 · 5 mo ago

Peteworrall said:
Ok. The Crown vs I. Don Givvatoss, 1873

Cheeky.

Reactions: 2

Klip88

· #496 · 5 mo ago

snowman40 said:
I think you've made everyone else's point.

Brands live on perception, not tangible differences.

M

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

To argue there is no difference in controls from company to company is silly.

Klip88

· #503 · 5 mo ago

snowman40 said:
But the differences do not equal the cost to the buyer.

Everyone knows the law of diminishing returns.

A Rolex is undeniably better than a San Martin, but not tangibly better by the factor of the cost.

And unless you have some evidence that Tylenol is tangibly different to a no name version of the same drug, your argument is full of holes.

M

I agree to the point of the cost not equaling the actual cost of a Rolex, or any other high end brand, but my argument really isn’t full of holes… I have worked in a consultative manner to a myriad of light industrial companies in a prior life, and standards and QC differ, corporate philosophy, end user, availability of materials, and a million other variables. I assure you the processes differ from manufacturer to manufacturer regardless of product. I don’t see how that argument is full of holes?

Reactions: 1

Klip88

· #515 · 5 mo ago

One-Seventy said:
Until you provide referable evidence to this forum, you have no argument that Tylenol is fundamentally more effective than own-brand paracetamol, or whatever it is you call it over there. You cannot argue that Tylenol is fundamentally better unless you have a basis for that argument: "they might have better internal processes, although I don't know myself" is not an argument, but mere conjecture. Surely you see this?

In the literal sense of Tylenol vs supermarket brand sure, it’s conjecture. What is not conjecture is that higher end brands have better material sciences, better QC, and more skilled labor than whatever homage brand we’re talking about. A user even provided video saying while not terrible for the price, still no comparison. You’re arguing for the sake of arguing so I’ll concede as I am tired of this stupid fight, Steinhart and San Martin are just as well built as Rolex, and Omega!

Reactions: 1

Klip88

· #518 · 5 mo ago

SpeedFreek67 said:
I think the argument got sidetracked with the material difference between branded drugs and their generic equivalents. That was, as you said, a poor analogy perhaps.

And nobody was arguing that there is no material difference between Steinhart, San Martin et. al., and Rolex or Omega. The comment you replied to stated there definitely was a difference, but asked if the amount of difference equated to the higher asking price of the famous brands.

Of course a Rolex is better than a San Martin. But is it 500 times better?

Thanks for the level headed response, in an earlier comment which I don’t expect anyone to find at this point, agreed that the quality isn’t actually worth what they are charging. I don’t care if someone likes homages if they don’t like beating on expensive items or just like the brand. There is so much hate on both sides, my point at the end of the day is I do stay loyal to most brands that I respect regardless of technicalities of expired patents and what not. I have no problem with someone loving San Martin, or generic Tylenol

. I personally rather the people who have had the process done right the first time, and didn’t copy i.e., homage brands in this particular case. I have also found quality is generally better by the OEM. As a side note thank god for generic meds as they are made available to underserved communities across the world!

See less See more

Reactions: 2

1 - 14 of 538 Posts

Top