WatchUSeek Watch Forums banner

81 - 100 of 119 Posts

·
Registered
Samsung Gear Sport
Joined
·
8,434 Posts
Are the Bulova/Citizen 262 Khz three prong quartz movements still protected by patents?

That would maybe explain why we don't see more of these.
You can build it with regular quartz too but there will be problems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
368 Posts
You can build it with regular quartz too but there will be problems.
I suppose that if a cost-effective, non patent protected solution was existent, it would be widely used by the low end market.

I believe Citizen did a home run with the UHF-sweeping movement, but unfortunately with the ugly and far too big precisionist line (purely subjective opinion, no offense to those who like them), they kind of screw up the idea from the start. Accutron II was a great occasion to save the ship, with inspiration from the past, but the Bulova uhf name was somehow already tarnished by the first generation precisionist heritage. Like if two totally different design teams with two totally different phylosophy and directions were trying drive the show. I think that more clever marketing and design approaches, like eco-drive paired with UHF, Citizen could dominate the quartz world.
 

·
Registered
testing testing something pizza
Joined
·
23,811 Posts
Literally the only reason I’d be interested in this would be so that I don’t have to obsess over the second hand landing exactly on each marker. This is the only reason I don’t like quartz and it’s becoming the main reason I will sacrifice accuracy for the apparently smoother motion of mechanical. Maybe I have OCD.
Wait 'till you spot a mechanical watch ticking 7.5 beats between seconds markers ;-)
 

·
Registered
testing testing something pizza
Joined
·
23,811 Posts
How so? By the time you read the “exact time” the second has already passed on to the next, so I’m not sure I understand how a one beat per second hand tells the exact time more easily than a sweeping one.

I could argue the sweeping second hand is preferable because there is no .5 second position with 1 beat per second. You know in case I need to be somewhere at 3:00 and .5 seconds.
Having frequently looked at my watch before counting off a Sousa march in band rehearsal (120 beats per minute = two beats per "tick"), I'll vouch for the one-second tick being easier to read exactly.
 

·
Registered
testing testing something pizza
Joined
·
23,811 Posts
My Apple Watch has a smooth sweep seconds and it’s quartz.


I’ll see myself out…
60Hz refresh rate on the display, so it's "ticking" at 60 times per second. At least that's what mine does (verified with super-slo-mo video on my phone, too).
15890325
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
704 Posts
I like the discreet notation of a single second that quartz shows. And, as others have mentioned, deadbeat seconds in a mechanical watch was once a high complication. I'd pose the question the other way: why don't most mechanical watches have deadbeat seconds? Perhaps because it's more expensive to accomplish?
It's quite a technical challenge for mechanical movements. Sweep seconds can just be linked to the escapement and they simply tick at whatever beat rate you've got. For deadbeat seconds, you need to have some way to store up energy and release it with enough torque to jump the seconds hand every 6 or 8 beats. Plus it has to be done with enough precision that the seconds hand always hits its markers precisely and never goes out of sync.

In the quartz age, deadbeat seconds are extremely rare because not many high-end watch owners want their watches to be mistaken for quartz. JLC tried to revive it with the Geophysic True Second line not too long ago, but they gave up after a few years. I think it's a shame because the more you know about watchmaking, the more you appreciate just how hard it is to do a deadbeat seconds complication.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
Spring Drive is a mechanical movement with a quartz governor. So... not really a quartz?
It has no step motor, so no step. Completely different mechanism. The movement is driven by a mainspring, so it has a power reserve of three days, not three years. I love me a Spring Drive, and have one, but it has a quartz crystal and uses it for timing, so I don't see how you can say it's not quartz.
 

·
Mod. Russian, China Mech.
Joined
·
19,188 Posts
We may as well list here the watches with such movement that aren't chronographs. I'm aware of these five, all powered by the Seiko VH31:

Newark 52 (38mm)
Vario Eclipse (38mm, sold out)
Wolbrook Skindiver World Time (40mm)
Kingsbury Monarch (42mm)
WMT W20 (35mm)
LMM-01 Field Watch (38mm)

Edit: added the LMM
There are a bunch of others out there but they are obscure aliexpress brands using a Sunon quartz movement that does the same as the Seiko VK, but they seem to be almost impossible to intentionally locate on-line. I guess that says something about the demand for multi-step-per-second quartz.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,524 Posts
Well I learnt something reading this thread.

Always thought it was a cost thing, now I learn it’s a power thing.

And I now know why I always see Tesla’s doing 65mph in lane one on motorways.

Cos they don’t want to wear out their battery, not because they are all law abiding 160mph car owners.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,183 Posts
On a personal note.
I kind of view all quartz watches as watches for kids. "But what about the $XXXXX one, then?"
It's for a rich kid. It will always be a disposable appliance to me regardless of price, quality or History.

I didn't get a sweeping second as a kid and always wanted one. I got my first automatic at 20, when I could afford one, and since then I've never even considered a quartz. Only because of the ticking seconds that reminds me of the shame I felt for having a ticking second when everyone around me had a sweep.

Freud would have a field day with this one, I bet.
But I would gladly change batteries in a quartz watch more or less daily if it ment the second was smooth.
Luckily, there are mechanical watches in abundance to pick from... I just stay clear of the dead beats.

So, all of that noise only to land in the conclusion that there's no reason to wish something you dislike was different so you'd like it. Just go for something else.
Life's too short.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,895 Posts
How so? By the time you read the “exact time” the second has already passed on to the next, so I’m not sure I understand how a one beat per second hand tells the exact time more easily than a sweeping one.
Every digitally-displayed atomic reference time you've used to set your sweeping watches does that, but I don't believe there has ever been a complaint about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
987 Posts
It has no step motor, so no step. Completely different mechanism. The movement is driven by a mainspring, so it has a power reserve of three days, not three years. I love me a Spring Drive, and have one, but it has a quartz crystal and uses it for timing, so I don't see how you can say it's not quartz.
Because it doesn’t have a battery that drives the movement. It has a mainspring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
On a personal note.
I kind of view all quartz watches as watches for kids. "But what about the $XXXXX one, then?"
It's for a rich kid. It will always be a disposable appliance to me regardless of price, quality or History.
OK I’ll take the bait!
My X-33 has 3 separate motors for each hand. That means you can adjust the time any which way you want. It’s HAQ and issued by NASA. Definitely a tool not a toy.
I have to say this is a very entertaining and informative thread!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
949 Posts
Probably because it isn't a big deal for 99.9999% of us who prefer quartz to mechanical.

I don't stare at a dial and pine for a smoother, sweeping second hand. I just see what time it is and get on with things. A ticking second hand has never bothered me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,895 Posts
On a personal note.
I kind of view all quartz watches as watches for kids. "But what about the $XXXXX one, then?"
It's for a rich kid. It will always be a disposable appliance to me regardless of price, quality or History.
Right, and an expensive automatic watch isn't? Men here prove daily, as if proof were needed, that they are just rich kids.
I didn't get a sweeping second as a kid and always wanted one. I got my first automatic at 20, when I could afford one, and since then I've never even considered a quartz. Only because of the ticking seconds that reminds me of the shame I felt for having a ticking second when everyone around me had a sweep.
Jeez, you felt "shame" for something like that. What a hoot :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,696 Posts
My Casio Oceanus stores solar power in a Panasonic CTL1025 solar lithium battery, not capacitor, and will stop running under certain no light no use conditions. It wakes up and jets to the proper atomic time, using sensors to make sure it hits the marks precisely. The only thing missing is the smooth sweep.
You have a point. Some solar powered watches have a rechargeable battery vs. a power cell like Citizen's Eco Drive. One of the drawbacks of the rechargeable batteries is they can only discharge at a certain rate, so if the power demand is too high, it'll drain quicker than it can recharge. I think one of the greater challenges with solar (and battery for that matter) powered watches is power management. You can put a big honkin' battery in it which forces the design to a larger case, or you can manage how power is used with ultra efficient motors, etc. Bulova has figured it out, but I really think the other side of the equation has nothing to do with engineering at all. It's demand. There just isn't a large demand for smooth sweeping second hands on quartz watches. Part of the reason is most people wearing watches grew up wearing a quartz watch, so they are used to the one second advances of the second hands.

One other technical note. The Casio battery is rated at 18mAh (milli-amp-hours). A Maxell CR2016 non-rechargeable silver oxide battery is rated at 90mAh - so 5x the power capacity compared to Casio's battery. So, at least in the Oceanus, there's not a lot of power available to drive a sweeping second hand.
 

·
Registered
testing testing something pizza
Joined
·
23,811 Posts
Because it doesn’t have a battery that drives the movement. It has a mainspring.
This needs to be echoed -- what we're really talking about in this thread is how the watches are powered, not how they're regulated.

"Why do quartz watches tick?" actually misses the point, of course, because mechanical watches tick (they all do, in fact) and so the reason for the ticking in a battery-powered watch is not the regulation mechanism, it's for power management.

The real question would be, "Why do battery-powered watches tick?" And we know that answer by now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,183 Posts
Right, and an expensive automatic watch isn't? Men here prove daily, as if proof were needed, that they are just rich kids.

Jeez, you felt "shame" for something like that. What a hoot :)
As I wrote, it's a personal thing.
Growing up, all adults around me had mechanical watches. I didn't like being a kid and wanted to be like the adults and have the same stuff as they did. The fact that I had a quartz was the ultimate symbol of me not being an adult and not being taken serious.

I don't like cheap plastic sunglasses for the same reason. Or BMX bikes...

Many people look back at there childhood with joy. I don't. I never liked being a kid and now that I'm not anymore, I will not get anything that reminds me of being one. That includes having my own kids.

So, no. A mechanical watch is for adults and quartz is for kids in my book.
OK I’ll take the bait!
My X-33 has 3 separate motors for each hand. That means you can adjust the time any which way you want. It’s HAQ and issued by NASA. Definitely a tool not a toy.
I have to say this is a very entertaining and informative thread!
If it has a ticking seconds hand, it's for kids, yes.
Smooth seconds for adults. Regardless of price, history or quality. It's about the ticking and nothing else.

Once again. This is a personal note. I genuinely don't care what other people like and I'm well aware that most people don't think like me.
 
81 - 100 of 119 Posts
Top