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I like this quote: "All generalizations are WRONG"
I must say this is the weirdest statement I've ever seen on this forum, and that's quite a feat
Any thoughts on childish generalisations?
It's a bit funny that all of you managed to not quote the parts where I time and time again write that it's a personal thing rooted in a bad experience being a kid and having to wear quartz when all I wanted in life was a mechanical watch.
It's an association I make when I see a ticking seconds hand. Nothing more, nothing less.

But you guys clearly like it, so nothing has really changed for anyone. Don't understand why everyone cares what I think all of the sudden...

I even wrote in the first post that I wouldn't have a problem with short battery life if it meant smooth seconds.

But sure. Strangest ever.
 

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You have a point. Some solar powered watches have a rechargeable battery vs. a power cell like Citizen's Eco Drive. One of the drawbacks of the rechargeable batteries is they can only discharge at a certain rate, so if the power demand is too high, it'll drain quicker than it can recharge.
From what I understand, modern Citizen Eco-Drive watches use conventional rechargeable cells now, and not capacitors of old. Any thoughts on that?
 

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From what I understand, modern Citizen Eco-Drive watches use conventional rechargeable cells now, and not capacitors of old. Any thoughts on that?
Citizen still calls it a power cell, so I can't confirm they use rechargeable batteries. Their marketing stuff on Eco Drive still claims you don't need to replace batteries. Amazon and other sources only offer the replacement capacitor power cells. I suspect it's still the capacitor, since by definition, a capacitor is rechargeable. Some sites will call any rechargeable power source a battery even if it's really a capacitor. I know the solar cell itself is only good for 20 years (their claim). Usually that lifetime is an estimate with some sort of range on either side, depending on number of charging cycles, how the watch is handled, etc.
 

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As I wrote, it's a personal thing.
Growing up, all adults around me had mechanical watches. I didn't like being a kid and wanted to be like the adults and have the same stuff as they did.
OK, well it's quite a small thing to be fixated on that's given you a somewhat twisted view of an aspect of childhood. But these adults... the same ones who by your accounts, comprehensively trashed your childhood? And you want to be like them, wear the same watches as them?
 

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OK, well it's quite a small thing to be fixated on that's given you a somewhat twisted view of an aspect of childhood. But these adults... the same ones who by your accounts, comprehensively trashed your childhood? And you want to be like them, wear the same watches as them?
It's not possible for you to understand the situation or draw any conclusions from the limited information you've been given.
I don't really care to deliberate any further with a stranger who's opinion I don't really care about, but I'll say this, I didn't like a single aspect of being a kid. Not an unhappy or messed up childhood, just wanted to grow up fast.

i think this has gone a bit too far off topic.
 

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You have a point. Some solar powered watches have a rechargeable battery vs. a power cell like Citizen's Eco Drive. One of the drawbacks of the rechargeable batteries is they can only discharge at a certain rate, so if the power demand is too high, it'll drain quicker than it can recharge. I think one of the greater challenges with solar (and battery for that matter) powered watches is power management. You can put a big honkin' battery in it which forces the design to a larger case, or you can manage how power is used with ultra efficient motors, etc. Bulova has figured it out, but I really think the other side of the equation has nothing to do with engineering at all. It's demand. There just isn't a large demand for smooth sweeping second hands on quartz watches. Part of the reason is most people wearing watches grew up wearing a quartz watch, so they are used to the one second advances of the second hands.

One other technical note. The Casio battery is rated at 18mAh (milli-amp-hours). A Maxell CR2016 non-rechargeable silver oxide battery is rated at 90mAh - so 5x the power capacity compared to Casio's battery. So, at least in the Oceanus, there's not a lot of power available to drive a sweeping second hand.
Obviously an engineer of some type ;-) FWIW I'm the offspring of a Minuteman III expert lol...true story...my mom.

That battery is also more than 10 years old. Both battery technology and electric motor efficiency have advanced significantly since then. Between upgraded technologies and solar recharging I'm pretty convinced you engineers could achieve the goal.
 

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It's not possible for you to understand the situation or draw any conclusions from the limited information you've been given.
I don't really care to deliberate any further with a stranger who's opinion I don't really care about, but I'll say this, I didn't like a single aspect of being a kid. Not an unhappy or messed up childhood, just wanted to grow up fast.

i think this has gone a bit too far off topic.
You're right; of course you're right. You shouldn't care, and neither do I. Problem solved!
 

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Fun historical facts:

Back in the 1960s, when Timex entered the electromechanical watch market with their first (Laco-designed) movement, they offered the world's first battery-powered wristwatch with dead-beat seconds. Nearly 20 years later they were at the opposite end of the spectrum being the last players left on the field offering a multi-step-per-second quartz watch.

Speaking of that last 1st generation Timex Quartz; being a quartz regulated balance-wheel electromechanical mechanism, it is possible to remove the quartz oscillator and microchip and the watch will continue to run very accurately due to the drive system providing its own self-regulating feedback.
15892235

By contrast if you remove the quartz regulating element from a Seiko Spring-Drive, it is completely unable to keep time. Therefore the Spring-Drive is more of a 'quartz watch' than is the Timex Quartz.

And all of that I think proves what was said earlier that what we are actually discussing here is not actually quartz watches with smooth sweeping second had, but actually battery-powered watches with smooth sweeping second hand.
 

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Speaking of that last 1st generation Timex Quartz; being a quartz regulated balance-wheel electromechanical mechanism, it is possible to remove the quartz oscillator and microchip and the watch will continue to run very accurately due to the drive system providing its own self-regulating feedback.
That's fascinating. How did that work?
 

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If it has a ticking seconds hand, it's for kids, yes.
Oh yeah, this is definitely a kiddy watch...

Or alternately at around 1/10th the price (but STILL around $6k)...the Habring2 Erwin. Since the Geophysic True Seconds is discontinued, it's on my radar. At the edge, maybe, but on the radar.

Why aren't there more higher-speed sweep quartz like the Precisionist? Because it largely failed, at least as a 3 hander. 3-4 years ago, there were numerous 262 kHz 3 handers in 2 or 3 different lines. Now, they're all but gone. Some of this is...YMMV but Bulova's designs are just ugly IMO. VERY poor legibility. That doesn't help. Never considered one because they're all BIG. That didn't help. (Hey, nothing wrong with big watches, but they appeal only to a fraction of the market. Not saying they shouldn't have them...but that they also need something for smaller wrists.) Battery life is a huge factor. I loathe changing batteries; every time you open up the back, you risk screwing something up or getting dirt in there. I flat out REFUSE to do non-solar quartz at this point.

Solar quartz: My A060-based Citizen Chronomaster has a reserve, when fully charged, of about 7 months. From what I've seen, that's actually on the low side; it might be related to the thermocompensation, but I don't know that. But with a sweep seconds, what's that gonna be...maybe 2 months? That might be fine if you wear it regularly, but not if, say, you wear it under a sleeve a lot. Or even, in winter, in an office where the lighting's not terribly bright. You do NOT want your watch stopping unexpectedly. Solar is also, I suspect, trickier to do than people realize. Yes, Cartier managed a sweet trick with their solar Tank...but they have the pockets to do that. Citizen's made it their major draw...but they've now had it for a couple decades, IIRC, and worked out lots of the issues. Seiko had to keep up. Casio went arguably a smart way: their first solars were digital. So they could work out the technology when inefficiencies wouldn't matter nearly as much. (I had 2 of em. They lasted a good long time...20-odd years, I think. But both had their storage cells fail...they ran fine IF there was light, but stopped within a couple hours if not.)

Push come to shove: if Bulova, with their heritage of sweep second movements, can't make them work that well, then anyone else considering it has to pause. The return does not seem to be there. Now, OK, Citizen did the Eco Drive One, and now the 0100, at least in part as demonstrations of technical excellence, I think. The electrostatic Bulovas...well, I'm not sure if they're trying to show technical excellence or pushing a gimmick. But a sweep second quartz wouldn't be new for anyone else, so it won't sell on the novelty factor. That makes the development effort rather risky.
 

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Since the Geophysic True Seconds is discontinued, it's on my radar. At the edge, maybe, but on the radar.
I have one and can definitely recommend it. Deadbeat seconds is not its only trick - it also has the Gyromax balance mounted on a full balance bridge.
 

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That's fascinating. How did that work?
Timex already had a reliable balance-wheel electromechanical movement in production. In such a movement a battery powers an electromagnet that causes a balance-wheel to swing. The swing of the balance-wheel drives the rest of the movement and also controls the switching of the electromagnet that powers it. Whereas the balance-wheel in a mechanical watch merely releases the energy of the mainspring in regular increments, in an electromechanical movement the balance-wheel actually drives the hands, via either a pawl or a jewelled-lever. Because they were already heavily invested in production of such watches, Timex obtained special quartz oscillators that vibrated at a rate that would divide down via microchip to the natural 6 bps frequency of the balance wheel (in contrast to regular quartz oscillators whose frequency is chosen to divide down to a 1-second step). In the Timex Quartz, the quartz oscillator corrects for any slight errors in the natural frequency of the balance-wheel circuit. Being a 'plug-in' system, the quartz circuit can be detached to allow the watch to keep time on the natural swing of the balance alone.
 
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