[Simon]

Hi all

bought my lovely 1967 reissue Heritage Chrono Diver yesterday
absolutely love it - what a standout beauty

I owned a Master Hand Wound before and it was a classy watch but this is a wonderful thing
beautifully made, great movement, with enviable historic pedigree

why is Longines not such a big deal with WIS on the Forums

I cant think of anything Swiss where quality n value combine like this

 

[Robbo12]

Those who know, KNOW !!!!

 

[Davemcc]

I will take a shot at a more in depth answer based on my own views. Longines is a mid-tier Swatch brand, nominally slotted somewhere between Hamilton and Omega.

Many people enter the hobby with lower end models from Tissot and/or Hamilton. They might be budget buyers at first but if they grow as a hobbyist, they are more likely to seek Omega as a first higher end luxury watch, skipping Longines in the process. I would expect that ADs are motivated to sell Omega at a higher transaction price and would lead customers there.

Secondly, much of Longines catalog is pretty pedestrian and boring. They hit it out of the park with their heritage lines but that style isn’t for everyone.

Thirdly, they use worked over ETA movements with brand specific designations like most Swatch brands. Nothing wrong with that but it doesn’t distinguish a more expensive Longines against a cheaper Hamilton or Tissot. Nor does it distinguish Longines against the more technological movements available in Omega.

That’s my take, fwiw.

 

[b.watcher]

I can t really agree with that. Longines watches meet a higher quality standard than certina, tissot or hamilton. Longines are on level with mido for example. Proofen and reliable movements in well finished cases.
And i really don t think that longines lineup of watches is boring, just the opposite: something for everyone. At least not 100 so called limited editions as omega do for example, that is really hillarious. Btw, the co axial movements from omega have eta based calibres as well

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[707mm2]

the co axial movements from omega have eta based calibres as well

Actually, I believe the fact Omega is now considered a more "luxury" brand is only marketing talk. The co-axial escapement is just a way to sell ETA movements at higher prices as there's never been any factual proof of its superiority over the classic jeweled anchor.
Another very little known fact is that Longines still produces at least one "in-house" movement, caliber L878.
Now vintage wise, it's a whole other story. Vintage Omega still demands higher prices because they profit from the more recent perception of the brand, but vintage Longines were on the whole of a higher quality in terms of movement finishing than Omega. Another less known fact is that a Longines design, the base calibre L990, equipped some much higher end brands than Omega, like Breguet or Roger Dubuis.

 

[Unce_Turbo_997]

I will take a shot at a more in depth answer based on my own views. Longines is a mid-tier Swatch brand, nominally slotted somewhere between Hamilton and Omega.

Many people enter the hobby with lower end models from Tissot and/or Hamilton. They might be budget buyers at first but if they grow as a hobbyist, they are more likely to seek Omega as a first higher end luxury watch, skipping Longines in the process. I would expect that ADs are motivated to sell Omega at a higher transaction price and would lead customers there.

Secondly, much of Longines catalog is pretty pedestrian and boring. They hit it out of the park with their heritage lines but that style isn’t for everyone.

Thirdly, they use worked over ETA movements with brand specific designations like most Swatch brands. Nothing wrong with that but it doesn’t distinguish a more expensive Longines against a cheaper Hamilton or Tissot. Nor does it distinguish Longines against the more technological movements available in Omega.

That’s my take, fwiw.

This answer nails it. I used to work at Longines as an intern (summer of 2003) and the same struggle existed then. The watches look great in person and have a quality and feel to them equal to that of Omega (and surpassing Omega in some regards), but the market doesn't care at this price point. They can price as higher end than Hamilton, but don't have the pieces or the will to brand into Omega territory. The $1k - $3k watch market is littered with brands, so it's best to move more watches than spend to stand out.

Rolex has the Submariner/Daytona/Datejust, Omega has the Speedmaster, Breitling has the Navitimer, and Longines has heritage pieces that they will rehash and reproduce. They're fantastic and I love the new Heritage Sector, but they are moving the dressier pieces and women's models for the masses. FWIW they have a strong following in Asia.

 

[Ventenberry]

When comparing the specs of a Longines Hydroconquest to an Omega or Rolex dive watch, I don't see much difference. This probably is true for the rest of their lines as well. One could argue minor details of one brand vs. the other such as this movement is COSC or it has this special trait, etc. But if the watch looks nice and was built with the same or nearly the same specs then I don't see a reason to pay three to ten times the price of a Longines other than a status symbol.

If only James Bond wore a Longines, then perhaps Rolex and Omega would cost less.

 

[Unce_Turbo_997]

When comparing the specs of a Longines Hydroconquest to an Omega or Rolex dive watch, I don't see much difference. This probably is true for the rest of their lines as well. One could argue minor details of one brand vs. the other such as this movement is COSC or it has this special trait, etc. But if the watch looks nice and was built with the same or nearly the same specs then I don't see a reason to pay three to ten times the price of a Longines other than a status symbol.

If only James Bond wore a Longines, then perhaps Rolex and Omega would cost less.

I mean you really can't compare Longines to Rolex. I get what you are saying by the look of the watch, but Omega vs. Rolex is more appropriate.

That being said the only thing the technical merits and advances that Omega has made in their movements gets you is higher total cost of ownership when it's time to service the watch. They are very well made, but the average owner doesn't know the difference and is only buying based on name. I owned the first generation Hydroconquest and other than the bezel it was great. The new version on nato looks fantastic.

But here's the problem - Longines recently released the Record COSC line. Where is the demand? Then the released the Master Moonphase. Again, where is the demand?

 

[utzelu]

I will take a shot at a more in depth answer based on my own views. Longines is a mid-tier Swatch brand, nominally slotted somewhere between Hamilton and Omega.

Many people enter the hobby with lower end models from Tissot and/or Hamilton. They might be budget buyers at first but if they grow as a hobbyist, they are more likely to seek Omega as a first higher end luxury watch, skipping Longines in the process. I would expect that ADs are motivated to sell Omega at a higher transaction price and would lead customers there.

Secondly, much of Longines catalog is pretty pedestrian and boring. They hit it out of the park with their heritage lines but that style isn’t for everyone.

Thirdly, they use worked over ETA movements with brand specific designations like most Swatch brands. Nothing wrong with that but it doesn’t distinguish a more expensive Longines against a cheaper Hamilton or Tissot. Nor does it distinguish Longines against the more technological movements available in Omega.

That’s my take, fwiw.

I agree with this view and will add that Longines has no iconic watch to build around, like Rolex or Omega has. At least I don't know of any such timepiece. As such, its marketing is less effective in attracting new customers. And frankly, I looked over their catalog and there is nothing for me that stands out.

 

[b.watcher]

Tastes differ, i see a lot of models i like in the catalog. And the legend diver can be looked upon as iconic if you ask me. It also has a very high demand.
If you take rolex for example, is it really that iconic to have basicly the same watch over decades with just minor design or technical changes here and there and demand a silly amount of money for it? I think not.
At omega they at least improve or change the lineup from time to time with their speed- and seamasters and for a much more attractive price than rolex.
Longines could have easely the place that omega has now btw, they were much stronger in business before the quartz crises than omega. Just the fact that hayek liked omega more put longines a step below them. Which is very sad i think, there could be a co axial hydro conquest, think about that for a minute

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[andyk8]

I genuinely don't know why there isn't more love for Longines. The make some seriously beautiful and well made watches.

The 1967 punches well above it's price point and is currently keeping my Superocean and Planet Ocean off my wrist.

 

[utzelu]

I genuinely don't know why there isn't more love for Longines. The make some seriously beautiful and well made watches.

The 1967 punches well above it's price point and is currently keeping my Superocean and Planet Ocean off my wrist.

As others said, there is love for Longines from the customers, but maybe less from WIS. I guess for most WIS, Longines is not an aspirational brand but something most see as a starting point of the watch collecting journey.

I personally am looking into their VHP GMT models and thinking to add one to my collection, though I would prefer to get it pre-owned (and I could not find one yet).

 

[b.watcher]

Why a starting point? Why does it always have to be the goal to get more expensive watches when there are more reasonable priced ones that offer almost the same quality and sometimes even more advanced movements than the expensive ones (breitling and tag heuer are coming to mind)

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[utzelu]

Why a starting point? Why does it always have to be the goal to get more expensive watches when there are more reasonable priced ones that offer almost the same quality and sometimes even more advanced movements than the expensive ones (breitling and tag heuer are coming to mind)

That's a good question. Probably it has to do with the better marketing and recognition other brands have. Compare the number of posts on the Longines forum with Rolex, Omega and Seiko - there's a big difference.

 

[Gersen]

We are lucky. You get a brand with a storied history and name for discount prices. When I was young and not into watches I knew of 3 Swiss brands: Rolex, Omega and Longines. Some are hyping relatively minor brands, like Tudor for example, and looking down on a horological giant like Longines. They make some awesome watches like the Legend Diver, the Bigeye, Heritage Flagship, 1945, the new sector dial watch etc. You get exclusive column wheel chronograph movements and the new caliber for the sector dial heritage model is with a silicon hairspring and 64 hour power reserve at 25200 bph. That's a longer power reserve than the Omega 8500 caliber at the same beat rate! Undoubtedly they make a lot of crappy models as well.
Not that they mind getting less love from watch geeks being the 4th largest watch brand (by revenue) in Switzerland after Rolex, Omega and Cartier.

 

[christam]

As others said, there is love for Longines from the customers, but maybe less from WIS. I guess for most WIS, Longines is not an aspirational brand but something most see as a starting point of the watch collecting journey.

I personally am looking into their VHP GMT models and thinking to add one to my collection, though I would prefer to get it pre-owned (and I could not find one yet).

I bought the VHP GMT a few months ago as a special birthday present to myself and also because increasingly arthritic hands make it more and more difficult to wind/reset automatic watches. It keeps perfect time, always knows the date, looks beautiful on the wrist and is very well made. OK, so the quality might not be quite up there with Rolex et al but it's not that far off.

For most of my working life I was a two-watch person - a "good" one for everyday wear and a cheap Swatch for holidays. I changed watches every few years and because I was a regular customer at a local high-end jewellers, the part exchange was always favourable. At one point I switched from a Rolex Datejust to a Longines (can't remember the model), with a fairly considerable amount of cash my way. The watch expert at the jewellers couldn't quite believe what I was doing but for me, the Longines was a more comfortable wear on the wrist. I wanted a change and I didn't want to keep the Rolex in a drawer just in case I decided to wear it again in the future.

I kept that particular Longines for six years and remember it very fondly. As a brand, Longines may not have the cachet of Rolex or Omega but I'm certainly very happy to be wearing one again.

 

[Simon]

great post - thankyou

 

[Simon]

Ive kinda gone the opposite direction - for years always aspirational - moving higher up until I owned a $12k watch (as well as others)
But it didnt really satisfy - always more I wanted higher or lower priced. I am now buying cheaper watches (citizen/Seiko/Longines/Tudor) and loving them

Its a bit like wine for me - for some years I was always keen to taste more expensive ones - but there was very clearly a law of diminishing returns -
but now I want a wine as that tastes almost as good as high end, but costs a fraction cos its gone under the radar.

 

[Gepetto82]

I've long been a fan of Longines, but then again I also know its history. There was a time when to mention Longines (or Omega, for that matter) in the same sentence as Rolex was a compliment to Rolex. Longines is a company with a long history and has made some of the best movements of all time (e.g. 13zn). I'm the proud owner of a pocket watch purchased by my grandfather new in 1926...after a servicing, it keeps time to an average deviation of about +2 seconds per day. Remarkable for something that is 93 years old.

I used to own a Legend Diver but sold it because it's just too big for my wrist. I'm not happy that Longines watches have ETA movements - I'd love to see them develop something all new and exclusive to them. But few watch houses do that anymore due to cost and expense. An advantage nobody talks about is service costs. It's much cheaper (and easier) to service an ETA or base ETA than a manufacture movement. I have no issue with this - my LLD was within COSC spec and the finishing was superb. I think eventually what goes around comes around and, maybe in a decade or two, people may recognize Longines more. Though I agree with others that their current offering will have to change in order for that to happen.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

In the US long-time luxury brands like Longines and Universal Geneve have less WIS interest than many newer brands. But not in Europe....