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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
There's two sides to the coin...
PROS & CONS...this topic has been discussed before at the other forums, but perhaps, worth revisiting as some folks feel strongly about the watches they buy...and then, there are some who are sitting on the fence on this topic (or issue). We have seen this before....a company marketing a certain watch and purportedly hints or suggest that the watches are actually made or assembled (major parts/or 51%) or put together in Germany.....OR, as the purists would argue, the watches are essentially made of Chinese parts/components/ assembled in Asia but rebadged as a German watch. and thus, the word "GermAsian" has been coined and mentioned in various threads in WUS. But, somehow, it has a negative connotation and some folks would expressed their dislikes/or disappointments with these watches and refer to these watches as (okay it's the "C' word)...."crap".:-:)-s

But, are these watches, really garbage.....or to put it mildly, relegated to the trash bin after a few weeks..or few months of regular use? Yes, I've heard many horror stories about Invictas/SL's and the like but quite frankly, I have not heard of any pervasive CS/QC issues with some of these watches in general. Since a good number of Chinese watch forum members are very familiar with Chinese movements and/or manufacturing and production fascilities and their track record, I'm hoping that some folks can share their knowledge and personal experiences with "GermAsian" watches. I've noticed that some of the watch designs resembles SeaGulls and Alphas, etc. So, it's conceivable that a majority of these GermAsian watches have Seagull/or Hangzhou/Shanghai movements...or even a Japanese OS20.

Your thoughts?:think:

FOR INSTANCE: the watch below kinda reminds me of a TAO-INTL. watch. Not sure if it's got a Swiss Ronda, but more than likely, Chinese (or Japanese) movement. Perhaps, someone can come forward and dispute this and say this is an authentic German watch.......with an Asian heritage?:-d:think::-s
Automatic Dual Timer 2nd Time Zone BIG 45 mm Watch





polished stainless steel case
Automatic movement
Vibrations/H: 21,600
Walk reserve approx. 38 hours
Rotor pulling up on both sides
2nd time zone
waterproof 5 ATM
Size approx. 45 mm without crown
Description: WWII Men's dual timer watch with a self winding (automatic) movement, deep blue patterned dial, silver hands and silver numerals, big second hand, front mineral crystal, exhibition back.
Case : Solid stainless steel, polished, 45 mm (w/ocrown)
Band :black, genuine leather, 24 mm, stainless steel thorn fastening brandet by BOSCE Germany
Water Resistant : 5 ATM (atmospheres)
Warranty :2 Years
Delivery : Invoice, Warranty- card, with box


 

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Discussion Starter #2
BTW, most of these watches are in the "Affordable" price range which make them very attractive to watch enthusiasts.
The watch pictured below is in the low $100 price point (EURO 89 / USD $109). Upon close examination, these watches are worth the 2nd/3rd look. For someone who may be considering getting a handsome good-looking watch with a proven reliable movement like Seagull or Hangzhou, etc, a GermAsian watch might fit the bill.


 

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BlueWings077, you're raising the issue in a very respectful and even-handed manner and I appreciate that, so here's my thoughts:

1) There's a sense where I believe these watches are decent value for the $$$, which is to say they may have appropriate enough quality control and attractive features, and even very nice European-style cosmetics. So, I suppose, if they are contracted by a company that has an office in Germany and taken as a fashion watch, meaning "in the fashion of" a German watch, or "styled to be a" German watch there's some value there...the same value of a clothing fashion piece or line that emulates a more expensive look. As long as they don't steal a brand I sort of have no huge problem with that.

They look nice and if I just saw them on your wrist, I'd likely compliment you with no reservations.

But...

2) If they had "China Made" and a more neutral generic or (better) a more Chinese name, I'd be much more pleased to see them here in the Chinese Mechanicals forum. Much better they were sterile even, than pretending to be from somewhere else.

Semdu watches, for example, were welcomed here because, even though they certainly took European styling cues (some examples very much like Omega homages, for a specific example) they were clearly and plainly--even proudly--marked as China Made...to the point of 中国 制造 as well as English.

My point is that if the brand is not proud enough to be plainly Chinese and proud of the nationality of workmanship, then they don't please me by being in this particular forum any more than a Claro-Semag 888 does. There's a reason the Claro-Semag 888 and the Pan homages, and/or other sorta-Swissish/European-looking watches are in the Affordables or Fashion forums and that's because they belong there. In those forums, I can even respect the watches you show to some degree. That's why I even went to bat somewhat for Zodiac over it's labeling of the Claro-Semag 888 as "Swiss" in this post in this thread...but that thread was also in the Affordables forum which I think was more appropriate and the movement actually does (even if barely) absolutely met the technical/legal parameters of "being Swiss".

As well, when I see watches like you're asking about in the Affordables forum or in the Fashion watch forum, I'm pleased to very publicly note that I'm happy and grateful they hire Chinese workers and provide business for Chinese companies. :-!

Here in the Chinese Mechanical Watches forum, however, they make me feel somewhat like I would feel in the presence of a brother or parent who wouldn't acknowledge my kinship.
 

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are these watches, really garbage.....or to put it mildly, relegated to the trash bin after a few weeks..or few months of regular use?
I'm the happy owner of three germasian watches for 3 years now :

Aeromatic Pointer Date (chinese automatic)



Tauchmeister U-Boot (japanese quartz chronograph)


I have another one (Wagner), still running, but with several minor issues :
 

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I'm the happy owner of three germasian watches for 3 years now :
...and Reno shows three perfect examples, all of which look great and all of which I love seeing in the Affordables forum, every single time.
 

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I have 2 Trias and a Tauchmeister and they work like a charm, in fact I love the designs of these watches to the point that they are the top of my favorite list!!
 

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Some are purely Chinese watches, that just stick 'Germany' on them. Minorva's tourbillons come to mind. To me those certainly belong in this forum; this is where the expertise on those movements is, if nothing else.

You could make an argument that any discussion of watches with Chinese mechanical movements belong here. The affordable forum's collective knowledge seems to be around ETA (including Unitas) and Japanese movements. When SeaGull or Parnis come up, referrals are often made to this board.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Some are purely Chinese watches, that just stick 'Germany' on them. Minorva's tourbillons come to mind. To me those certainly belong in this forum; this is where the expertise on those movements is, if nothing else.

You could make an argument that any discussion of watches with Chinese mechanical movements belong here. The affordable forum's collective knowledge seems to be around ETA (including Unitas) and Japanese movements. When SeaGull or Parnis come up, referrals are often made to this board.
THANK YOU, Gentlemen (and Ladies?)...appreciate all your comments and feedback.
>RENO: Beautiful timepieces!!! (Aeromatic/Tauchmeister/Wagner). I actually have a limited edition #34/200 Tauchmeister diver. It's one of my favorites.
>REECEK/STRELA 167: Thanks for your comments and sharing your watches...
>CKOT: At the outset, I was debating whether to post this thread in the Public/or Affordables Forum....but I finally decided that this thread would have more relevant and meaningful feedback from Chinese Forum members b/c of the vast wealth of knowledge of WUS members who owned China-made timepieces and have personal experiences in collecting/owning these fabulous watches. Because like you said, "the affordable forum's collective knowledge" would focus more on ETA/Unitas/Japanese/Other Misc. movements.
 

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If a watch is sold by a company with it's head office in Germany, then it is a German watch. Same goes for a watch made/assembled by a company headquartered in Switzerland or one head quartered in Japan.
Bulova may now be owned by Citizen but it is still a registered American company headquartered in the USA. Discussing Bulova watches is still frowned upon on Citizen forums.

So, I have to agree with Alberta Time; the better forum for discussing these watches is on the WUS Affordables. :-!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Alberta-Time/Pawl Buster...Greetings! Looking out the window sipping my coffee and it's gray and overcast and it's cold, so I'm staying indoors for awhile and responding to replies on this thread. I am actually enjoying reading the postings and I appreciate the differing views and quite frankly, I am gaining more knowledge about Chinese timepieces as I frequent this forum more and more. I think there will be a "China-Made" timepiece for me on the horizon.

As I was telling CKOT earlier, I was initially debating whether to post this thread in the Public/or Affordable Forum...but I decided to post it here as I personally felt that I will get more meaningful and relevant responses from folks-in-the-know, i.e., watch enthusiasts & collectors who have personal experiences owning and collecting these fabulous timepieces. Since *WUS* has a worldwide audience, I would venture to say that there are Chinese forum members who are not only familiar with Chinese movements, in general, but are closer to the source so to speak and probably have first-hand information on company announcements or product roll-outs from the manufacturers like Shanghai Watch Co., Tianjin-Seagull, Hangzhou Watch Co., etc.

So, the premise whether this thread belongs to the Affordable/or Public Forum...or to the Chinese Forum would remain an open-discussion, but quite frankly, my main objective of posting the thread in the Chinese Forum was not so much for public consumption or entertaining reading, but more in the context of SHARING views, insights, knowledge (technical/or general), and of course, personal experiences of folks who have been acquiring and collecting China-made timepieces and watches with Chinese movements.

Accordingly, most of us enjoy the sharing-and-learning part as we read the numerous comments and perspectives about these watches, and as I was visiting some of the various websites, I becoming more appreciative of the history, tradition, and transformation of the Chinese watch manufacturers like Tianjin-Seagull. The future is bright for this company....and right now, it looks like a horse race between ETA and Seagull movements. Only time will tell. Best wishes to you all!


http://usseagull.com/EnProductShow.asp?ClassID=73&ID=117#http://usseagull.com/EnProductShow.asp?ClassID=73&ID=117#
 

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You could make an argument that any discussion of watches with Chinese mechanical movements belong here. The affordable forum's collective knowledge seems to be around ETA (including Unitas) and Japanese movements. When SeaGull or Parnis come up, referrals are often made to this board.
You make good points and no one who has ever asked about a Chinese movement in a watch of uncertain (or disguised) nationality has ever been turned away or treated rudely here, and that's as it should be :-!. I think we all obviously try hard here to make the Chinese Mechanical Watches forum a very friendly place. When someone has asked, we've always done our best to simply and cordially identify the movement and help in any way we can. And we should always continue to do so. I respect and like all folks for their love of watches; that's good for the entire industry, and I sure don't want to hurt anyones feelings here. It's purely about the ethics of these companies.

However...

As noted in this thread, the German forum obviously and pointedly frowns on discussion of these watches with the explicit approval of the forum moderators, and that rejection sometimes spills over to comments in the Affordables forum, so it's very obvious that Germasian watches are in a sort of limbo position. But the owners of the Germasian companies put themselves there. (The Chinese Watch Industry Wiki article on Germasian watches describes how they do so: by attempting to trade "in name only" on German heritage.)

My question is: if trying to unfairly trade and benefit on an overblown German heritage is understood and accepted as proper reason for rejection in the German forum, and these companies don't even respect their Chinese heritage that much, why should these watches be happily accepted here for actively denying their Chinese heritage?

That's all I'm going to say on the subject.

Onward. :)
 

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If I may add a little something…

I'm being rather liberal towards germasian brands, because I feel a proximity with "french" brands, as YEMA, LIP or Yonger & Bresson (I happen to own models of each brand)

Apart Y&B which claims to be "Fabriqué en France" (french made) while the movement is obviously chinese,




the two others have a different approach : no "french made" on YEMA (Miyota mvt), but everything is written in french ;




on the LIP's caseback, there's an elusive "french design" engraving…




Those are three examples of "real" french brands… my point being : a german company using asian parts could be perfectly legitimate (as long as it's not using a "German made" printing on its dial)

I reckon Tauchmeister/Aeromatic are similar : a real german company, with german owners/designers, but using chinese parts & workforce.

In the end, as legitimate as other brands pretending to be what they're not.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
You make good points and no one who has ever asked about a Chinese movement in a watch of uncertain (or disguised) nationality has ever been turned away or treated rudely here, and that's as it should be :-!. I think we all obviously try hard here to make the Chinese Mechanical Watches forum a very friendly place. When someone has asked, we've always done our best to simply and cordially identify the movement and help in any way we can. And we should always continue to do so. I respect and like all folks for their love of watches; that's good for the entire industry, and I sure don't want to hurt anyones feelings here. It's purely about the ethics of these companies.

However...

As noted in this thread, the German forum obviously and pointedly frowns on discussion of these watches with the explicit approval of the forum moderators, and that rejection sometimes spills over to comments in the Affordables forum, so it's very obvious that Germasian watches are in a sort of limbo position. But the owners of the Germasian companies put themselves there. (The Chinese Watch Industry Wiki article on Germasian watches describes how they do so: by attempting to trade "in name only" on German heritage.)

My question is: if trying to unfairly trade and benefit on an overblown German heritage is understood and accepted as proper reason for rejection in the German forum, and these companies don't even respect their Chinese heritage that much, why should these watches be happily accepted here for actively denying their Chinese heritage?

That's all I'm going to say on the subject.

Onward. :)
ALBERTA TIME --> You are an (officer) and a gentleman :)

Yes, indeed, "ONWARD & FORWARD". Have been enjoying the lively discussion, and by the way, as I was slogging through the various threads, I'm finding you're one of the resident experts on Chinese timepieces.

So, having said that, when the time comes I'm ready to pull the trigger on the "real-deal" - - the SEAGULL with, perhaps, the ST-19 movement, then, I'll come knocking on your door for your final blessings :) Deal?

Have a wonderful weekend!

P.S. How's your hockey team doing these days?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
MONSIEUR RENO...you're da man !

OMG, "Fabrigue En France" those are French beauties !!!
Now, you've opened a new frontier for me (YEMA, Y&B, etc.)....Dear Lord, please help me with my credit card bills...:) :) :)
 

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MONSIEUR RENO...you're da man !

OMG, "Fabrigue En France" those are French beauties !!!
Now, you've opened a new frontier for me (YEMA, Y&B, etc.)....Dear Lord, please help me with my credit card bills...:) :) :)
:-d Thanks BW ;-)

If you want to see more about them :

YEMA :
https://www.watchuseek.com/f78/yema-sousmarine-300m-ymhf-0303-a-376252-post2814823.html#post2814823

Y&B :
https://www.watchuseek.com/f78/yonger-bresson-diderot-393900-post2944334.html#post2944334

LIP :
https://www.watchuseek.com/f296/lip-mach-2000-led-277451-post2042707.html#post2042707
 

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ALBERTA TIME --> You are an (officer) and a gentleman...I'm finding you're one of the resident experts on Chinese timepieces.

So, having said that, when the time comes I'm ready to pull the trigger on the "real-deal" - - the SEAGULL with, perhaps, the ST-19 movement, then, I'll come knocking on your door for your final blessings :) Deal?

Have a wonderful weekend!

P.S. How's your hockey team doing these days?
Thank you for your kind words. Of course I'll help you find "the real deal" any time and...

...hockey?
...game with the puck?? I prefer Caber Catching (Caber Tossing is for sissies :-d)
 
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