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...and while you guys are at it, what are your thoughts on this one? It's on the way in the mail right now (from seller Coolydeal). It doesn't bother me either way, but I like to know what I have. I think the dial looks a little too clean to be original.

 

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...and while you guys are at it, what are your thoughts on this one? It's on the way in the mail right now (from seller Coolydeal). It doesn't bother me either way, but I like to know what I have. I think the dial looks a little too clean to be original.
That looks genuine. I have bought quite a few pieces from him, and never a problem. Pricey but kosher. He has a "talent" for finding rare and/or excellent condition pieces.
 

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Sorry I should have also asked - would you please tell me why you think one way or the other? I'm interested in your reasoning, and would like to learn how to spot a non-original dial.

Thanks very much.
Look at the gold painted numbers and compare the "quality" of the painting to skapig's
 

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The first one is certainly a redial. The original Volna dials of this type were whitish, while the redials are silverish, the pattern looks slightly different, etc. Just for the record, these are the most common franken Volna dials, available right now on aukro.ua

3169389828.jpg

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I still think that the moderators should add the spare parts section of aukro.ua to the links of permanent interest for Russian watch collectors. Usually I check Mark Gordon's site for what I should buy, and aukro for shouldn't.

Regarding the second watch - I'm not sure, but can't put my finger on it. Could you upload a photo of the movement and the caseback?
 

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That looks genuine. I have bought quite a few pieces from him, and never a problem. Pricey but kosher. He has a "talent" for finding rare and/or excellent condition pieces.
He has at least 3 franken Volna for sale now, I think - two in Almaz case, one with new dial as posted above.
 

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Regarding the second watch - I'm not sure, but can't put my finger on it. Could you upload a photo of the movement and the caseback?
I don't have the watch yet, so these are the seller's photos--more can be seen on the eBay listing page: 350759864162. I know very little about these Vostok precision watches, so any comments are appreciated! Franken or not, I am more excited than usual to receive this one. I think the dial is fitting for a 60's vintage regardless of authenticity.



 

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Bad news so far - it should be 22 Камня instead of Намня; I'm wondering also about this speck exactly in the middle of Л for ВоЛна - some franken dials have problems with the Cyrillic "Л" and use "A" instead, so this Л could be a carefully edited A. If you want, you can post also a photo of the small inscription under the dial - ГЧЗ Чистополь - to see how it looks like.
And maybe my eyes are playing a trick, but the Я in камнЯ also has some of A in its pedigree - its backbone is not as straight as my school teacher insisted.

Regarding the movement, it looks fine. Normally I would expect an earlier white movement with quarter / year on the bridge for this type of dial, or a plain white movement, but a yellow movement with =ЧЧЗ= is also plausible. The dial is more problematic.
 

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Bad news so far - it should be 22 Камня instead of Намня; I'm wondering also about this speck exactly in the middle of Л for ВоЛна - some franken dials have problems with the Cyrillic "Л" and use "A" instead, so this Л could be a carefully edited A. If you want, you can post also a photo of the small inscription under the dial - ГЧЗ Чистополь - to see how it looks like.
And maybe my eyes are playing a trick, but the Я in камнЯ also has some of A in its pedigree - its backbone is not as straight as my school teacher insisted.
Serves me right for not paying closer attention - Storyteller is spot on with that dial (good eyes there, storyteller). Sorry for my mistake Skapig. Always great to get second, third and fourth opinions on these things. Especially from the experts.
 

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I know it's not fair to chime in at the end but the dials for the precisions are about as bad as the dials for the MIRs. They just didn't hold up very well and to see one absolutely spotless is very very rare so when I see no spots at all well red flags go up.....buying an authentic 2809 is one of the most difficult tasks in Russian watch collecting, in my opinion.
 

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The original Volna dials of this type were whitish, while the redials are silverish, the pattern looks slightly different, etc.
Oh yeah...thanks for mentioning that. It is really easy to see side-by-side. It is very apparent in the first row of "waves" alone from how the wave line begins.

VOSTOK Volna Watch Precision Chronometer USSR Zenith Russian Chrome Wave Dial  _2013-04-18_00-41.png

As far as redials go, they are actually pretty good...not that I'm condoning it.
 

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I think it would be preferable if the assemblers of these Volna/Almaz frankenwatches (especially those using a new case as well as dial) were to print their own name on the dial instead of 'Almaz' or 'Volna', and maybe install a glass caseback. They could probably get a better price by selling it for what it really is i.e. a new watch with a classic vintage movement.

Over on the Chinese forum, we have a project underway to build a limited run of new watches incorporating the classic Tianjin ST5 movement (another great-looking vintage movement like the 2809). Surely there is the potential for something similar with the 2809; especially given the amount of resources in Russia apparently being dedicated to wrapping new parts around old movements. It just needs a suitable name. 'Vostok', 'Soyuz' and 'Mir' are already in use. How about 'Voskhod' :)think: too close to Vostok?) or 'Salyut' (kind of a tie-in with the covert space station series called 'Almaz')?
 

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Bad news so far - it should be 22 Камня instead of Намня; I'm wondering also about this speck exactly in the middle of Л for ВоЛна - some franken dials have problems with the Cyrillic "Л" and use "A" instead, so this Л could be a carefully edited A. If you want, you can post also a photo of the small inscription under the dial - ГЧЗ Чистополь - to see how it looks like.
And maybe my eyes are playing a trick, but the Я in камнЯ also has some of A in its pedigree - its backbone is not as straight as my school teacher insisted.
Well you made quick work of that one! I noticed the "Kамня" looked a little off when I bid, but completely missed the botched letter in "ВоЛна". Hopefully the "smudge" in the middle of the "Л" isn't too noticeable... if so I might have to get one of those new dials posted earlier in the thread. I think the style of the dial looks fine... it's a shame the letter is botched.

Thanks for the critique. I'll have to post my Raketas sometime and let you guys tear those apart.
 

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Over on the Chinese forum, we have a project underway to build a limited run of new watches incorporating the classic Tianjin ST5 movement (another great-looking vintage movement like the 2809). Surely there is the potential for something similar with the 2809; especially given the amount of resources in Russia apparently being dedicated to wrapping new parts around old movements. It just needs a suitable name. 'Vostok', 'Soyuz' and 'Mir' are already in use. How about 'Voskhod' :)think: too close to Vostok?) or 'Salyut' (kind of a tie-in with the covert space station series called 'Almaz')?
I'll have to admit that my only Chinese mechanical is a little number with Chairman Mao waving that I bought because I wasn’t able to ever find the one I really, really wanted, the one with Deng Xiaoping smoking a cigarette. So even with all the Chinese horological expertise at hand, I had to look up a Tianjin ST5 movement. Wow, it’s gorgeous. Too bad all 500 slots seem to be spoken for.

As far as the Soviets go, I think there are a number of movements from the 50s or very early 60s that would look good in such a project if it ever became serious.
 

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I have bought quite a few pieces from him, and never a problem
compare the two. The redial was from coolydeal. From my early purchasing days, about a year ago. Found the original dial later, from roman at sovieterawatch. Signficantly cheaper too. Roman these days discloses on all his watches if there is a redial or a re-hands.
The watch is very pretty, but .... I don't like the fact that I unknowingly bought a redial. He should have stated such.

(pics are not the best .... but you can still tell the tell tale signs)






























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