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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all.
Looking for your input. I recently picked up a 2005 16710 black bezel in amazing shape from Bernard Watch. Supposedly it was serviced in April by a Rolex certified watchmaker. The accuracy has been disappointing to say the least, +8 to +10 seconds a day. I wrote to the dealer expressing my disappointment and he’s working on some sort of a solution, including the possibility of sending it back for regulation. He even offered to take the watch back for a full refund.
The watch is in pristine, like new shape and was priced ‘reasonably’ so I really don’t think I want to return it. I am not sure that sending it back to be regulated is a great idea either. I was thinking of maybe asking him for a small rebate to compensate the very average timekeeping.
What would you guys do? Should I just relax, enjoy the watch and forget about it until it’s time to get it serviced or am I right to be upset?
Thanks in advance.
 

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I would be disappointed with that accuracy. Did Bernard Watch perform the service? Last summer, I purchased a K-serial 16570 from an AD, and concurrent with my purchase, they had their certified techs service the watch. It now runs +/- 0.5 s/d.

However, service was part of the purchase agreement, so I probably paid at the higher end of (last year’s) prices. If part of the agreement was Bernard would service the watch, or they represented newly serviced, I’d look at sending back or having regulated.

I had my A-serial 16710 serviced two years ago, and it runs ~+3 s/d.
If you decide to service yourself, I’d go somewhere like LA Watchwerks.
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+8 or +10 sec is unacceptable if they represented the watch has been serviced. It should run within COSC as a minimum. Can you get a quote from a local independent watchmaker to regulate the watch and ask the retailer to pay for it?
 

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Definitely unacceptable!
I got my 16610 back from a service at RSC London in Feb 2019 and it runs on average +0.5 to +2 seconds/day.
+8 to +10 would annoy me, but then again, I can be a bit anal with little things like that.

At least the dealer is willing to work with you on this, which is a good sign.
If you really like the watch and got a good deal, you could take it to a Rolex Service Center and have it regulated, I've read that this is a simple fix, so no need to wait for the next service to get it sorted.
 

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It would bother me, for sure. I'd be asking myself if the service had been done properly, if it wasn't running within specification.
That's something I'd expect them to get right.
 
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I could careless about accuracy. Never have even checked one of my watches.
 

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I would ask the dealer to pay for a service at Rolex NYC. This way you get to keep the watch and have it brought up to spec by the manufacturer at no cost.
 
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I would ask the dealer to pay for a service at Rolex NYC. This way you get to keep the watch and have it brought up to spec by the manufacturer at no cost.
I agree with sending it to a Service Center, but probably not the NY one unless they've changed their ways. I seem to remember reading quite a few horror stories about that location & the census is that the Dallas Service Center is the one of choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for all your responses. The dealer is supposed to get back to me today. I really don’t think he would pay for an RSC service, not in a million years. I mean he has offered to take the watch back for a full refund, and he could probably turn around and sell it again fairly quickly.
I really love the watch and want to keep it. He’ll probably offer to have it sent back for regulation. Not sure I trust their watchmaker anymore if he couldn’t get it right the first time. I’m thinking of asking him for a small rebate, say in the neighborhood of $400-500, to eventually go towards a service. I mean I can live with the current timekeeping for a while, it just grates me that the watch was advertised as having been serviced in April.
 

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I hope everything works out for you. Although I have no personal experience with Bernard Watch Company located in Austin TX, I can tell you they have a stellar reputation. I have not bought from them since I would have to pay exorbitant TX sales tax, and any watch would have to be shipped anyhow. I recall someone from Bernard telling me virtually all of their clients are from out of state other than Austin.

As a side note I have had several watches regulated under warranty at Dallas RSC although their regulation is called a service. I imagine Bernard has a Rolex trained watchmaker who likely let yours pass through with slightly too much gain per day. I would rather a watch gain as much as yours per day than lose even one second per day, and +5 to +6 seconds per day is completely acceptable for me. If Bernard elects not to give you an amount of cash unacceptable to you, I would have a strong tendency to ask they email you a shipping label and send it back for regulation by them, requesting it be regulated to +2 to +3 seconds per day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I hope everything works out for you. Although I have no personal experience with Bernard Watch Company located in Austin TX, I can tell you they have a stellar reputation. I have not bought from them since I would have to pay exorbitant TX sales tax, and any watch would have to be shipped anyhow. I recall someone from Bernard telling me virtually all of their clients are from out of state other than Austin.

As a side note I have had several watches regulated under warranty at Dallas RSC although their regulation is called a service. I imagine Bernard has a Rolex trained watchmaker who likely let yours pass through with slightly too much gain per day. I would rather a watch gain as much as yours per day than lose even one second per day, and +5 to +6 seconds per day is completely acceptable for me. If Bernard elects not to give you an amount of cash unacceptable to you, I would have a strong tendency to ask they email you a shipping label and send it back for regulation by them, requesting it be regulated to +2 to +3 seconds per day.
Thanks a lot for this thoughtful response. Yes I read up quite a bit on them and they seemed to have an excellent reputation. The watch was in exactly the condition that they advertised. They told me in their initial response that they don’t insist on their watches performing to COSC standards. I guess if it’s just a matter of regulation I might agree to it. +5 to +6 seconds would have been acceptable but +10 is a bit much. Although the price of the piece was ‘reasonable’ by today’s GMT standards I don’t have anything more left in the watch budget to fund an RSC service right now. Maybe in a couple years.
 

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Thanks a lot for this thoughtful response. Yes I read up quite a bit on them and they seemed to have an excellent reputation. The watch was in exactly the condition that they advertised. They told me in their initial response that they don’t insist on their watches performing to COSC standards. I guess if it’s just a matter of regulation I might agree to it. +5 to +6 seconds would have been acceptable but +10 is a bit much. Although the price of the piece was ‘reasonable’ by today’s GMT standards I don’t have anything more left in the watch budget to fund an RSC service right now. Maybe in a couple years.
I'll be curious to see what Bernard's response is but might be hesitant to return the watch for refund at +10 sec/day, keeping in mind it will likely begin to gradually lose time until eventually needing service. When you finally need it serviced, maybe best to take it to NYC RSC in person and pick up there when ready. Living in Dallas, that's what I do and suspect I might be treated a bit better doing that in person since they actually know me as a person rather than as a number. Again, curious to hear what Bernard's offers you.
 

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Poor regulation would be indicative of sloppy service. If it even WAS serviced?
 
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I think you are being completely reasonable. A rebate of $400 - $500 is a fair compromise.

Let's wait to pass judgement once you hear back from the dealer. Please keep us posted.

Yeah, I don't have much confidence in their watchmaker after this incident.

Thanks for all your responses. The dealer is supposed to get back to me today. I really don’t think he would pay for an RSC service, not in a million years. I mean he has offered to take the watch back for a full refund, and he could probably turn around and sell it again fairly quickly.
I really love the watch and want to keep it. He’ll probably offer to have it sent back for regulation. Not sure I trust their watchmaker anymore if he couldn’t get it right the first time. I’m thinking of asking him for a small rebate, say in the neighborhood of $400-500, to eventually go towards a service. I mean I can live with the current timekeeping for a while, it just grates me that the watch was advertised as having been serviced in April.
 

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Yes that seems out of spec....I would have the watch regulated at the very least and try to get as close to COSC as possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Update:
So they have offered to do a one time regulation and have sent me a label. I suggested a rebate as an alternative but they didn’t even respond to that suggestion. Here’s what their sales manager wrote.

"The standard for good running order for a mechanical watch is within 10 seconds per day. The recent service on the watch was performed by Stoll & Co. in Dayton, Ohio. We use Stoll & Co for the bulk of our repairs and have been doing so for over a decade. They are a large reputable service center. They performed a full overhaul on the watch and the timekeeping was within expected specifications.

If you had expressed your timekeeping expectations when ordering we certainly could have let you know exactly how accurate the watch was (average gain +6-7 seconds/day with a range of +4 to + 10 in all six positions and a balance amplitude of 270 degrees in the face up position). Those are excellent results with a strong balance amplitude and isochronism. Timekeeping within COSC specs for a pre-owned watch is not something that we generally expect, recent service or not.

We would be willing to allow for one attempt at regulating the watch to tighter standards by Stoll & Company at our expense; however, further attempts at regulating the watch would be at your expense unless the timekeeping is outside of 10 seconds per day. Improvement beyond the current timekeeping it is certainly a possibility, but if COSC specs are your requirement to keep the watch, then you should return it, as we cannot guarantee that level of timekeeping and wouldn't want to be held to a standard that we do not advertise."

In the real world the watch has been consistently running at just a tad under +10, so I have no idea where they’re getting numbers like +4 or even +6. In any case they are trying to make it right, which is a good thing. I just don’t understand how their timekeeping standards for a relatively recent watch (2005) with a proven movement (3185) can be so lax
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I would just collect the refund, instead of waiting for things to get fixed
Why? The amplitude is strong. The timekeeping is very steady if not sufficiently accurate. If they’re willing to regulate it, why not just have them do it? The watch is in amazing shape, literally as if it just came out of Rolex’s factory.
 
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