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Discussion Starter #1
Response time: Great
Shipping and packing: Great
Item as described: Bad
Post-sale service: Bad

Bought a Grand Seiko SBGE209 from Andy. The transaction went smoothly. He was very responsible and reasonable during the initial negotiation process and even shipped it expedited at my request.

Unfortunately, the watch was not as described. It had a lot more scratches on the case and bracelet than originally described and revealed in the photos he texted me. Additionally, the watch had a dent at the 1 o clock marker on the bezel that was not revealed either (His post said no dents).

I was late picking up the watch from the shipping facility as I got tied up with work. So a couple of weeks after the shipment had been delivered, I picked up the watch. I immediately contacted Andy and layer that evening, sent him the photos of the scratches and dents. He advised that I was late with my feedback. To which I advised him why I couldn't pick up the watch earlier. I have proof of picking up the watch the same day I sent him the images of the additional scratches and dents. I know, I was late in picking up the watch. But explained to him that the scratches and dents would still have been there regardless of the pickup date and that the full condition of the watch was not disclosed before the sale. I suggested that he split the cost of sending the watch for zaratsu finishing ($200) but he declined. I think that was a fair compromise considering the watch had a lot more wear and tear than originally revealed and I was still going to eat the half of the finishing cost.

He refused to acknowledge the fact he didn't disclose the full condition of the watch and refused to split the service cost.

I'd like to warn future buyers to proceed with caution and ensure you get a full disclosure of the watch's condition when buying from Andy. Also, pay through protected methods like PP with purchase protection.
 

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To play a devils advocate here, you asked for an expedited shipping but then you don’t pick up and examine the watch for several weeks? I don’t know what you do for work but I do not see how I would be so tied up as to not to be able to pick up for weeks unless I was out of the country. Do you have photos of the damage? Were there photos in the listing that did not show the damage?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
To play a devils advocate here, you asked for an expedited shipping but then you don’t pick up and examine the watch for several weeks? I don’t know what you do for work but I do not see how I would be so tied up as to not to be able to pick up for weeks unless I was out of the country. Do you have photos of the damage? Were there photos in the listing that did not show the damage?
My manager had gotten fired a few days before we finalized the deal. I asked that the watch be shipped to get there by July 26. Which was nice of Andy to accomodate,. Unfortunately, the watch wasn't ready for pick up until the following Monday. Since my manager got fired, I was dealing with a lot of his pending work and couldn't get to the shipment facility as they close at 5 pm during weekdays, short hours on Sat and closed on Sunday. I went there the first Sat I got free from work.

And to answer your question, no, the scratches were not caught in the photos he posted on the Ad or the ones he sent me. He only showed scratches in one place on the watch case which I had accepted before I got the watch.

Like I said, I have proof and pickup slip from the shipping facility to show I am not lying about picking up the watch and sending Andy the photos of the scratches the same day as the pick up. I am not lying about the damage and not trying to somehow blame Andy for the damage I may have caused. Like I said, timing aside, it's the fact that he has refused to acknowledge that he didn't fully disclose the watch condition. I agree (and I have duly pointed out) that I couldn't pick up the watch sooner. I accept responsibility for that.

Like I said, He was very cooperative and easy to deal with and was prompt with his shipping too. But I'm disappointed that I was misled about the condition of the watch.
 

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Don’t get me wrong, I am in no way suggesting you were lying. But I would not wait that long to pick up, if I couldn’t, I’d send someone to do it for me. It sucks that the damage was not captured before you made the purchase, I always ask for extra pics (or video), if I have any doubts. That way there is documentation. We live in the era of virtual shopping and pics and videos are the ultimate tool if you’re buying remotely. If the person is not willing to do so, (and I would do the same for others), move on.
Lesson learned, now you either have to live with the scratches or send it to Japan for repolish.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Am I allowed to post our text message correspondence here? Definitely a few things I want to address...
I want to know this as well. Although I don't particularly like being involved in such conversations and would rather such issues be resolved between the seller and myself, it's unfortunate that we will have to publish text messages between the 2 of us to make a case for ourselves.
 

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Am I allowed to post our text message correspondence here? Definitely a few things I want to address...
If you have permission from the other party, yes. Otherwise, no.

https://www.watchuseek.com/forum-rules-and-guidelines/

3. Private Messages (PM), along with other private correspondence, are not to be posted to the open forum without the permission of their original authors. If someone is concerned about the content of a PM that they receive, they should report it to the Moderators who will consider what action is to be taken.
 

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I'm still fuming about this. Here's my side of the story:

Been trading watches on here for over a decade now and never a problem. Sent Irfan multiple pictures and he asked for money off because of scratches (which weren't nearly as bad as he claims). I gave him the money off he asked for AND offered to take the watch back if he didn't want it. Then he asked me to send it overnight, which I did as a courtesy, despite the fact that I told him priority mail when negotiating. Then he asks for $200 back three weeks after our deal... so he can get a Zaratsu polish on a relatively new watch, still under warranty. I bent over backwards throughout our dealings, but this was a bridge too far.

I know this kind of person. He just wanted $200 back. I could have sent him a new watch and he would have said the same thing. He's the kind of person who buys pants at Walmart, wears them for 29 days, then returns them. I have a feeling he has pulled similar nonsense on other sellers, but perhaps they were inexperienced or intimidated about receiving bad feedback.

The only reason we transacted using PP F&F is because he asked me to either accept F&F or accept G&S but declare the watches value as $350. This was an international sale and I was not going to do that.
 

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The pieces of the puzzle don't fit together. Got expedited shipping, then waited 3 weeks (even though the seller claims he has proof that you signed for it the next day). I understand you had work obligations, but you have to realize the optics of this. Next, the whole $200 for Zaratsu refinishing... yeah, no. Only the Seiko Service Center in Japan offers it and it's more than $200. You wanted the seller to pay for half, so all this over $100 for a ~$3,000 watch.... and the sellers offer you a refund for a dented watch but you'd rather have that $100?

bruh.
we weren't born yesterday.
 

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So what you are saying he asked for a discount due to scratches and then asked for more $$ off due to... scratches?
Can’t double dip like that buddy...OP did not mention he already got a discount due to scratches initially.
It would be interesting to see the photos of the scratches that allegedly were not captured in the description.
 

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To be clear Irfan wanted me to refund him $200 (not $100) to split a Zaratsu polish, since he was estimating it to cost $400 (probably accurate).
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I was busy so I couldn't respond to this thread. But now that I have, I shall address some of the things that have been falsely represented about the watch deal.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
The pieces of the puzzle don't fit together. Got expedited shipping, then waited 3 weeks (even though the seller claims he has proof that you signed for it the next day). I understand you had work obligations, but you have to realize the optics of this. Next, the whole $200 for Zaratsu refinishing... yeah, no. Only the Seiko Service Center in Japan offers it and it's more than $200. You wanted the seller to pay for half, so all this over $100 for a ~$3,000 watch.... and the sellers offer you a refund for a dented watch but you'd rather have that $100?

bruh.
we weren't born yesterday.
Since you weren't born yesterday, you'd know that zaratsu polishing costs approx $388 plus tax (Case only) and shipping to Japan. The total cost is around $500. I asked Andy to split the cost and refund $200 for it. He denied which he has the right to. Doesn't mean the watch didn't have more scratches and a dent that was not revealed. Hope this clarifies.

Also, to address your question about things not adding up - I work crazy hours, sometimes requires me to go out of town for weeks and live out of a suitcase. I don't want to reveal the nature of my work and all those details as they are not relevant. What is relevant is that i couldn't pick up the watch when it was first delivered. I live in Toronto, Canada. Whenever a watch is shipped to me from outside of Canada through UPS and/or FedEx, those shipping companies slap high brokerage charges for high priced watches and at times, I have to clear the items in person through their shipping depots. It's just a effing hassle. If I do self brokerage, than I have to go to customs Canada offices and file a bunch of paper work, show them emails/messages as proof of purchase and value if watch, back and forth trips to the ups/FedEx Depot etc and that, too, is a hassle. Needless to say a headache for the seller to ship to Canada and incur higher costs. So I get them to ship it to my mailbox in Niagara Falls, I go to the mailbox facility and a quick declaration at the border followed by an on the spot tax payment allows me to bring the watch easily. In this case, Andy was kind enough to ship the watch Express and it was signed off by the staff at the mailbox facility. But I couldn't go to pick it up that Saturday as the mailbox facility hadn't sorted the packages that had come in and as such, my package was not ready for pickup until the Monday. By this time I couldn't go to pick it up for more than 2 weeks as I got tied up with work and due to the facility closing at 5pm on weekdays and early on Sat, it was not possible for me to go after work. Hope this is clear.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
So what you are saying he asked for a discount due to scratches and then asked for more $$ off due to... scratches?
Can’t double dip like that buddy...OP did not mention he already got a discount due to scratches initially.
It would be interesting to see the photos of the scratches that allegedly were not captured in the description.
Alright, let me be clear. The watch was posted for $3600 initially I believe. It sells new for approx $4750 online. The watch brand is not known for high value retention and pre owned pieces tend to lose quite a bit of value. I made an offer of $3100 not knowing the extent of scratches - just by what was described on the post. Then Andy countered with $3300 PP with friends and family option or $3300 PP + fees as he wanted to avoid hassle of international shipping for offers he had from other posters. I asked him to provide pictures of the scratches he was referring to in his post. He sent me 3 photos of noticeable scratches between 5 and 6 on the bezel and a a photo of scratches on the bracelet. At this time I told him that I think $3100 represents a fair offer given the scratches. He agreed to the price. There was no discount. It was a negotiated price between the seller and the buyer based on the condition of the watch that was represented in the ad as well as text messages. If you want to call it a discount, then perhaps all deals on this forum that are negotiated are basically discounted.

I work crazy hours, sometimes requires me to go out of town for weeks and live out of a suitcase. I don't want to reveal the nature of my work and all those details as they are not relevant. What is relevant is that i couldn't pick up the watch when it was first delivered. I live in Toronto, Canada. Whenever a watch is shipped to me from outside of Canada through UPS and/or FedEx, those shipping companies slap high brokerage charges for high priced watches and at times, I have to clear the items in person through their shipping depots. It's just a effing hassle. If I do self brokerage, than I have to go to customs Canada offices and file a bunch of paper work, show them emails/messages as proof of purchase and value if watch, back and forth trips to the ups/FedEx Depot etc and that, too, is a hassle. Needless to say a headache for the seller to ship to Canada and incur higher costs. So I get them to ship it to my mailbox in Niagara Falls, I go to the mailbox facility and a quick declaration at the border followed by an on the spot tax payment allows me to bring the watch easily. In this case, Andy was kind enough to ship the watch Express and it was signed off by the staff at the mailbox facility. But I couldn't go to pick it up that Saturday as the mailbox facility hadn't sorted the packages that had come in and as such, my package was not ready for pickup until the Monday. By this time I couldn't go to pick it up for more than 2 weeks as I got tied up with work and due to the facility closing at 5pm on weekdays and early on Sat, it was not possible for me to go after work. Hope this is clear.

Regardless, I tried sending him money through PP + Fees but PP have changed their rules so it won't let me send money to Andy for goods that will be shipped to an address other than my home address in Toronto (attached to my PP account). So we agreed that I will send him money through PP friends and family option and he will ship it to my Niagara Falls address. I also suggestion another option of declaring less value in shipment so I don't exceed the threshold of paying super high brokerage to UPS/FedEx. His correctly declined the latter option as he should have. So we went with the PP family and friends option. I re-iterated to him that I am not expecting any other scratches except the ones he sent me photos of. He kindly offered that I can return it within 5bdays of receipt at my own shipping expense if I don't like the watch. That was very nice of him. One again, as I have said in my earlier posts, I have had no issues with Andy's personal behavior as a seller. He was very accommodating.

However, Once I checked the watch the same day I picked it up from the Niagara Falls shipping facility a couple of weeks after Andy had originally shipped it, I noticed a lot more scratches in other places and a dent on the bezel too. I sent him photos of all other scratches and the dent the same day and kindly requested that he split the cost of zaratsu finishing for the case ($200 his share) as I wanted to keep the watch as I quite liked the style. He declined saying he can't discount the watch twice and that he was open about the scratches - which unfortunately, none of the photos on his post and the ones he sent me had revealed except for the scratches between 5 and 6 on the bezel and the scratches on one spot on the bracelet. I replied saying that's his choice and that I felt I was lied to. Which - as a buyer in this situation, regardless of the timing of the pickup, I was entitled to feel.

I felt I had to mention in the feedback that the watch was not as described. If Andy still wishes and agrees to, I can share the photos he had sent me through text and the photos I sent him upon inspection of the watch.

Once again, I'm not saying I am not responsible for a late pick up of the watch. That is totally on me. However, it doesn't change the condition of the watch and the resulting discrepancy.
 
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