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Good to hide serial numbers?

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#21 ·
It takes the AP service watchmaker a "partial disassembly" to identify their movement? I don't believe it, if that person knows his or her trade it should not take more than a close look to the caliber.

Don't have proof that the guy that said this to Gary123 was replicating an urban legend, slightly exaggerating or blatantly misrepresenting the facts, but think it is plainly not possible. No article or scientific publication to back up my position, but would love to have the feedback form an AP service watchmaker to clarify. Hope this is enough elaboration?
 
#24 · (Edited)
Half a year ago there was an extensive discussion on the quality of counterfeits on The Rolex Forum. Counterfeits have become so sophisticated that nowadays only by disassembly are they able to distingush genuine from fake.

I never have, and never will buy Rolex unless it's from an AD.

On a different note, it does make one ponder the ratio of cost of production to profit margins of said popular luxury brands if counterfeiters are able to basically clone and sell an almost indistinguishable piece at a fraction of the original price.
 
#25 ·
T1meout said:
Half a year ago there was an extensive discussion on the quality of counterfeits on The Rolex Forum. counterfeits have become so sophisticated that nowadays only by disassembly are they able to distingush genuine from fake.

I never have, and never will buy Rolex unless it's from an AD.
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Agree. Same for many popular AP and other watches, especially with solid casebacks, or modified ETA movements

T1meout said:
...
On a different note, it does make one ponder the ratio of cost of production to profit margins of said popular luxury brands if counterfeiters are able to basically clone and sell an almost indistinguishable piece at a fraction of the original price.
Click to expand...
Marginal unit production costs may be small. But true cost of production has to include, R&D investment, marketing spend, distribution channel costs, QC and warranty costs, ongoing customer service, inhouse machinery, metallurgy, and many many other costs that go into final price of finished product from an established brand.
Also, what you pay retail is not same as wholesale price. ADs margin is about half of your final cost.
 
#26 ·
EnderW said:
Agree. Same for many popular AP and other watches, especially with solid casebacks, or modified ETA movements

Marginal unit production costs may be small. But true cost of production has to include, R&D investment, marketing spend, distribution channel costs, QC and warranty costs, ongoing customer service, inhouse machinery, metallurgy, and many many other costs that go into final price of finished product from an established brand.
Also, what you pay retail is not same as wholesale price. ADs margin is about half of your final cost.
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I agree for the most part in that it's a substantial investment from drawing board to finished product, but still the price differences are enormous.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
EnderW said:
Agree. Same for many popular AP and other watches, especially with solid casebacks, or modified ETA movements

Marginal unit production costs may be small. But true cost of production has to include, R&D investment, marketing spend, distribution channel costs, QC and warranty costs, ongoing customer service, inhouse machinery, metallurgy, and many many other costs that go into final price of finished product from an established brand.
Also, what you pay retail is not same as wholesale price. ADs margin is about half of your final cost.
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Yeah right man.
 
#28 ·
Gamberretti said:
Sounds like he lied to you...
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And what is your basis for saying this?

This is one of the largest grey market dealers in the US with direct lines to many manufacturers and other grey market dealers. Numerous dealers I've spoken to over the years know him, buy from him and respect him. He has no reason to lie to me.

I suspect you are prone to making declarations about things you know nothing about, otherwise give a solid reason you would say he lied.
 
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#29 ·
Gamberretti said:
It takes the AP service watchmaker a "partial disassembly" to identify their movement? I don't believe it, if that person knows his or her trade it should not take more than a close look to the caliber.

Don't have proof that the guy that said this to Gary123 was replicating an urban legend, slightly exaggerating or blatantly misrepresenting the facts, but think it is plainly not possible. No article or scientific publication to back up my position, but would love to have the feedback form an AP service watchmaker to clarify. Hope this is enough elaboration?
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You have no idea. I spoke with him for a while about this. The plates and screws and much of what's visible is not difficult to replicate, depending on the movement, and if you have the right equipment. It is having the right equipment and the right people to do the fabrication. You may be right, perhaps if the AP tech took a lot time and carefully studied the movement under magnification he could have made a determination without disassembly. Maybe it was just quicker to remove a plate - I didn't get into these details with him. But I got the point: High end machining companies have now gotten into the business of making high quality fakes.
 
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#30 ·
I would suspect that "high end machining companies" should have better and more legal uses for their time and skills, but then I am prone to think for myself instead of simply accepting what the grey market guru told you, so we will agree to disagree on this.
 
#31 ·
Why do people hide serial numbers?

Just wondering why people are sometimes reluctant to show or reveal their watch serial numbers online? What is the concern? How big of a risk is it? I imagine it is more of an issue for some watch brands/types than others? Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
#32 ·
Re: Why do people hide serial numbers?

VintageChris said:
Just wondering why people are sometimes reluctant to show or reveal their watch serial numbers online? What is the concern? How big of a risk is it? I imagine it is more of an issue for some watch brands/types than others? Thanks.
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There is a record of ownership attached to that number...and it's nobody else's business. If some chose to share it so be it. If others scrub it so be it.
 
#33 ·
Re: Why do people hide serial numbers?

VintageChris said:
Just wondering why people are sometimes reluctant to show or reveal their watch serial numbers online? What is the concern? How big of a risk is it? I imagine it is more of an issue for some watch brands/types than others? Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
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You gain nothing from giving out that information... so why post it on a public forum? Small chance but real serials can be used when producing fakes.

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -- Will Durant
 
#34 ·
Re: Why do people hide serial numbers?

mitchjrj said:
There is a record of ownership attached to that number...and it's nobody else's business. If some chose to share it so be it. If others scrub it so be it.
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Thanks, so is the concern that a nefarious netizen could find out information about the person who own the watch? Like their name, address etc.

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#35 ·
Re: Why do people hide serial numbers?

This has been discussed many times before--serial numbers in the hands of people who don't actually own the watch can be used in many different ways. For example someone can claim that their watch was stolen, cite the number to their insurance company, and get a payment on it--even though it was not actually their watch--and, it has now been registered as stolen. Some companies do not require or even check if in fact that serial number was your own--they sometimes do not require the actual documentation to back up the claim--depends on how expensive it is--others have actually used the photos from the posting, with the serial number as evidence that it was their property, and either listed it themselves to try to sell to someone else (take the money and run), or for another take on the insurance scam--for those reasons, among many others, some folks don't like to show the numbers.
 
#36 ·
Re: Why do people hide serial numbers?

On higher end watches I don't disclose serial numbers because replica makers look for those to use on their fake watches.
 
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#40 ·
Re: Why do people hide serial numbers?

timefleas said:
This has been discussed many times before--serial numbers in the hands of people who don't actually own the watch can be used in many different ways. For example someone can claim that their watch was stolen, cite the number to their insurance company, and get a payment on it--even though it was not actually their watch--and, it has now been registered as stolen. Some companies do not require or even check if in fact that serial number was your own--they sometimes do not require the actual documentation to back up the claim--depends on how expensive it is--others have actually used the photos from the posting, with the serial number as evidence that it was their property, and either listed it themselves to try to sell to someone else (take the money and run), or for another take on the insurance scam--for those reasons, among many others, some folks don't like to show the numbers.
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Makes sense, thanks for shedding light on this issue everyone.

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