Neat watch but not for me.

 

Already discussion on it in the CW thread.

 

Thanks for letting me know, did not see that and nothing came up when I googled C ward twelve loco watchuseek, hence me creating the thread.

That said, I'm sure many others like me don't subscribe to each individual brands and wouldn't mind seeing a post for a new release on the public forum.

 

Super impressed with what CW are doing. Like others have said, probably not for me, but great to have them turning out watches like this

 

Watched Andrew Morgans vid on it this morning.
The finishing on both sides of the watch is very impressive. Manual wound 6 day power reserve. Only 30m water resistant.
Not seen or heard anything about it's accuracy..

 

Their own literature says something like it not being COSC certified because it has no seconds hand. I don’t know if it comes with an accuracy guarantee, but based on that I would expect COSC levels of accuracy.

 

This is a great looking watch, and by all accounts excellently made. If it is finished as well as the C12 X Steel, which was their first movement with hand finishing, then it will be something to see the metal.

Selfishly I wish they had put this movement in a different case, because I’m not sure I’d buy this as well as the X Steel I already have. If they put it in a case like the Bel Canto it would give me a real tough decision over which Christopher Ward to go for next.

The fact they can turn out such well made and well engineered watches for this price is great. Certainly, if a Swiss brand made something like this it would be much more expensive. It’s probably comparable to something like Glashutte Original, where a similar quality of watch will set you back more than this. What’s the cost of a GO PanoInverse? 3x the price of this? With that you get a hand engraved balance cock, power reserve indicator and date, but otherwise pretty comparable in terms of workmanship and quality.

 

I think it’s a stretch to compare CW workmanship and quality to GO. I feel like they have always “punched” above their price point, but having owned both brands, I wouldn’t put them anywhere in the same leagues.

That being said I still think it’s cool that they are coming out with innovative pieces that are beyond their standard line. Neither piece (the loco or the Panoinverse) are for my taste but it is cool that they exist. BTW quite a few Panoinverse available on chrono24 in the 6-7k range. Not a huge stretch if one was in the market for this style watch.

 

bravo CW, about the only watchmaker currently brave enough to innovate like this, not for me but well done.
Now my one gripe, on not only this watch but others high end that have screws on the face, why oh why not use a different screw head so we can have some symmetry, the mis-aligned screw drive me nuts. Something like this would look so much more attractive and they would not have to worry about symmetry as it would be far less noticeable.

 

I can't make my mind up on this watch. In fact im not sure about the brand nowadays. They used to make well priced watches in the sub £1000 category. Now theyre trying to move into the £3000+ price range and theres a lot of competition there. Their marketing needles me as well although they seem to be dialling that back recently. They used to bang on about the Swiss watch industry overcharging for their products to pay for their advertising campaigns etc. They may have a point but I noticed they were advertising in Tube stations which cant have been cheap. The "do your research" campaign was a bit duff as well implying that only people with rational thought capabilities purchased their products and everyone else was stupid.

That said, they have become a proper watch company with their in house movements and they do offer a good range of watches and theyre constantly innovating. Their explorer style watch is pretty good. Some of their watches look like theyre trying too hard though. Does half the dial need to be taken up by the balance just to show off their new movement? (im not a fan of skeleton dials but I appreciate lots of people are). Another case of "nice watch but not for me" which is what I feel every time I see their new releases.

 

I can't make my mind up on this watch. In fact im not sure about the brand nowadays. They used to make well priced watches in the sub £1000 category. Now theyre trying to move into the £3000+ price range and theres a lot of competition there. Their marketing needles me as well although they seem to be dialling that back recently. They used to bang on about the Swiss watch industry overcharging for their products to pay for their advertising campaigns etc. They may have a point but I noticed they were advertising in Tube stations which cant have been cheap. The "do your research" campaign was a bit duff as well implying that only people with rational thought capabilities purchased their products and everyone else was stupid.

That said, they have become a proper watch company with their in house movements and they do offer a good range of watches and theyre constantly innovating. Their explorer style watch is pretty good. Some of their watches look like theyre trying too hard though. Does half the dial need to be taken up by the balance just to show off their new movement? (im not a fan of skeleton dials but I appreciate lots of people are). Another case of "nice watch but not for me" which is what I feel every time I see their new releases.

They're still maintaining their normal line although the price has gone up similar to every other brand.

It feels like CW basically has two parts of company, one focusing on regular watches with sellita movements while the other company is trying hard to push it's creative watches to be recognised as a proper watch company, and honestly I'm all for that.

 

In the shuffling madness
Of the locomotive watch

 

The Twelve is a hideous failure of a watch design, and this is like putting lipstick on a pig.

 

Care to expend.

 

Will every watch brand now make a push toward designs that mimick haute horlagerie? it’s ok. I guess when you look at the design language and the price that is the selling point. You are not buying much heritage or brand legacy. It’s like a mirroring of certain elements found in watches that cost x more.

Is this the next FPJ before FPJ became FPJ? Heck no!

Would I buy a Tudor or omega, i don’t think Tudor or omega makes a watch similar to this one. Would I park my money in a Tudor pelagos ultra instead of this watch? Heck yes. Would I save a bit more and buy some aqua terra or whatever from omega? Heck yes. Would I save my funds completely and not buy a Tudor omega or Christopher ward? Yep this is what I would do.

I guess the humble tool watch is just too humble.

 

Will every watch brand now make a push toward designs that mimick haute horlagerie? it’s ok. I guess when you look at the design language and the price that is the selling point. You are not buying much heritage or brand legacy. It’s like a mirroring of certain elements found in watches that cost x more.

I don't understand why that is an issue, brand heritage/legacy while nice shouldn't dictate anything. MB&F is a 20 year old brand that maybe some of the most innovate and not wearable HH, they don't have much of a legacy to stand on either. Same with new-ish independents such as Kudoke, Trilobe, Ressence.

Heck, most brands that relied on heritage has fallen off, Universal Geneve, Elgin, etc. Even existing brands with plenty of heritage are struggling nowadays, producing nothing new or interesting, or just re-releasing their old models, the biggest one being Breguet, who ironically has the richest history in watchmaking, yet you rarely see them mentioned anymore, GP apart from their Laurerto, is hardly mentioned anymore.

 

This is surely not just another SW200 with some module on top. I think it's funny that they claim it's based on the Eta 7750 architecture. Not much left of that base caliber as far as I can see, maybe it has the same diameter or so?

Yeah, I'm not seeing it either...

bravo CW, about the only watchmaker currently brave enough to innovate like this, not for me but well done.
Now my one gripe, on not only this watch but others high end that have screws on the face, why oh why not use a different screw head so we can have some symmetry, the mis-aligned screw drive me nuts. Something like this would look so much more attractive and they would not have to worry about symmetry as it would be far less noticeable.
View attachment 19031294

"Clocking" screw heads of this size is basically impossible. The engineering cost of it, even at a much larger scale, is absolutely enormous, it's been covered here several times. The asymmetry only bothers a handful of people, most can cope with it, as the world around us isn't symmetrical (starting with the hour and minute hands). I think it's the latest cool thing to talk about... but anyway, a six-sided bolt head would still likely not be aligned with the others so that wouldn't work either. Someone, somewhere would get a loupe out. The only way to stop the voices is to use a fixed bolt, and put a nut the other side. The nuts wouldn't necessarily be aligned with one another either, but out of sight, out of mind!

The Twelve is a hideous failure of a watch design, and this is like putting lipstick on a pig.

You personally, don't personally like it, so it's a global commercial failure? Interesting.

 

(281) Clocking machine screws? Why not seen in any (?) watch, especially the top tier? | WatchUSeek Watch Forums

For anybody who wants to learn why it's basically impossible to align such tiny screw heads, from people who actually know what they are talking about.

 

Someone should start selling aftermarket screw sets for watch bezels or dials.. Like you can get in the automotive industry, for mountain bikes, etc. They could use something similar to RM's design. The misalignment is indeed much less noticeable when the screw heads are star shaped. But I'll let @sea_urchin be the judge on this.

 

its quite a nice looking thing..
that sort of fancy pants movement now in the realm of affordability.
i like it..
good job CW!

 

Pretty baller looking PRX.

 

bravo CW, about the only watchmaker currently brave enough to innovate like this, not for me but well done.

Maybe among more affordable brands... but there are a ton of expensive, independent, high-end, etc. brands that are doing all kinds of unique movements and displays in watches.

"Clocking" screw heads of this size is basically impossible. The engineering cost of it, even at a much larger scale, is absolutely enormous, it's been covered here several times. The asymmetry only bothers a handful of people, most can cope with it, as the world around us isn't symmetrical (starting with the hour and minute hands). I think it's the latest cool thing to talk about... but anyway, a six-sided bolt head would still likely not be aligned with the others so that wouldn't work either. Someone, somewhere would get a loupe out. The only way to stop the voices is to use a fixed bolt, and put a nut the other side. The nuts wouldn't necessarily be aligned with one another either, but out of sight, out of mind!

The other option would be to just not have them be structural. Bell & Ross seem to align their screw slots radially somehow... I assume they don't all get tightened to the exact same amount, and are therefore less important structurally... but I don't know.

It could also be that they just do this for their marketing pics/watches, and in reality they don't all align this way. I haven't seen them in person to determine that. Anyone have a square B&R?

 

The other option would be to just not have them be structural. Bell & Ross seem to align their screw slots radially somehow... I assume they don't all get tightened to the exact same amount, and are therefore less important structurally... but I don't know.

It could also be that they just do this for their marketing pics/watches, and in reality they don't all align this way. I haven't seen them in person to determine that. Anyone have a square B&R?

View attachment 19031725

Those are bolts, not screws. The difference is that a screw fits into a threaded hole while a bolt has a nut on the other side and the combination of bolt & nut can be turned freely in any direction before tightening.

The nuts can have all kinds of shapes. Here, they are tubes with a cap like a screw or bolt head.

If you look at the caseback of those B&Rs, you'll see the heads of nuts that are not aligned.

Edit: looking at a B&R technical drawing, it seems that the nut is on the dial side and the bolt is screwed in from the back.. Regarding the alignment, it makes no difference which is which, tough.

 

30M water resistance is a crime and ruins this for me. Shame because I dig it.

 

The other option would be to just not have them be structural. Bell & Ross seem to align their screw slots radially somehow... I assume they don't all get tightened to the exact same amount, and are therefore less important structurally... but I don't know.

They used to be actual screws, now they're bolts with a decorative, useless slot in them for aesthetic purposes only. Like "the AP".

so much easier on the eye, and seems such a simple fix

Nope, they're still not aligned (as opposed to misaligned, which they aren't). Won't be enough!

 

Nope, they're still not aligned (as opposed to misaligned, which they aren't). Won't be enough!

maybe not good enough for they loupe crowd but good enough for me

 

Sold.

I ordered the blue dial as soon as the order book opened.

Stunning 🥰

 

Always happy to get other people to spend money 😂

 

I’m waiting to see what Clive thinks.

 

They used to be actual screws, now they're bolts with a decorative, useless slot in them for aesthetic purposes only. Like "the AP".

Well, you still need the slot to counter the torque when you tighten the bolt or nut on the other side. The AP's hexagonal bolts are form-fit into hexagonal holes, so they really wouldn't need the slot.

Nope, they're still not aligned (as opposed to misaligned, which they aren't). Won't be enough!

I also don't think that most people would prefer the star shaped design. Maybe it would kinda work on the CW Loco, but imagining these techy looking screw heads on the dial of a Breguet Tradition or GP Golden Bridges.. Nope, I think most people would just prefer the traditional slot screws that have been used by watchmakers for centuries, disregarding their alignment.

 

Well, you still need the slot to counter the torque when you tighten the bolt or nut on the other side. The AP's hexagonal bolts are form-fit into hexagonal holes, so they really wouldn't need the slot.

They “might” need the slot to prevent the hex head from rotating and damaging the bezel when the nut on the back is tightened.

 

They are really making some unique models lately.

This one is right up there with the BC.

 

My Hamilton H10 with 80 hours needs about 100 turns to be fully wound. I wonder what the CW needs

 

I like the dial better than the bel canto but I am not a fan of the case. Not into the integrated bracelet design. Otherwise I quite like it!

 

Yup pretty much the same.
Also i dislike the crown, even if it's handwound i would have liked crown guards. There it's just huge.

 

Those are bolts, not screws. The difference is that a screw fits into a threaded hole while a bolt has a nut on the other side and the combination of bolt & nut can be turned freely in any direction before tightening.

The nuts can have all kinds of shapes. Here, they are tubes with a cap like a screw or bolt head.

If you look at the caseback of those B&Rs, you'll see the heads of nuts that are not aligned.

Edit: looking at a B&R technical drawing, it seems that the nut is on the dial side and the bolt is screwed in from the back.. Regarding the alignment, it makes no difference which is which, tough.

They used to be actual screws, now they're bolts with a decorative, useless slot in them for aesthetic purposes only. Like "the AP".

Thanks! I should have thought to check the back and see how they're actually in there.

 

Yeah, older ones were screws. They are misaligned on mine.

Nothing exposed on the back other than the odd single screw with the warning to not unscrew it. Haha

 

I appreciate and respect the watchmaking chops of making a watch like this, but haute horology isn't really my thing, so not something that tugs at my heart strings.